Henry's Blog

The Long Emergency

Part Four

With

James Howard Kunstler

Jay Weidner: If you are interested in our video collection go to www.sacredmysteries.com and check them out. We have DVD’s by people like Terence McKenna, Nicki Scully, Sharron Rose, Pedram Shojai, Gregg Braden, Neale Donald Walsch and others. Also go to my own website www.jayweidner.com to read my articles etc.

We are here with James Howard Kunstler. James, you were telling us about your book, "World Made By Hand, " did you ever get anyone to option that from Hollywood?

James:  Actually, I am having discussions with people.

Jay:  Yeah, I would think that it be a good choice. You could bring that in for a few hundred thousand.

James:  If you are ripping yarn full of interesting incidents; there ain't nothing wrong with it.

Jay:  No. So what's your new book?

James:  It's a sequel to "World Made By Hand".

Jay:  Oh, good.

James:  "World Made By Hand" took place in the early summer of the year, in question, in the future, and the sequel takes place around Halloween time; around now actually. The characters in the first book have moved into the background, and the characters, who were in the background in the first book, have now moved into the foreground. The new one is about the 11?year?old son of the town doctor. And he commits a crime and has to run away from home and is at large in the county, throughout the course of the book, and falls in the company of a young psychopathic bandit and killer. So the book is all about what happens to him in this situation.

Jay:  Sounds pretty good. I think there is going to be a lot of those guys around, don't you?

James:  Well, I don't if there will be lots of them. They already are. I mean there are plenty...we don't have shortage of people who misbehave in this land.

Jay:  Has crime gone up where you live in the last year?

James:  Well, I live in a pretty quiet corner of North America. I live in sort of a main street, a classic main street, small town in upstate New York. I don't know that crime has really gotten that much worse around here. But, you do see what used to be the lower middle class of people here really struggling much, much more than they were a year ago or several years ago. They just cannot make it. They can't feed their families, and they are barely keeping roof over their heads and paying their bills, and its very, very hard for them.

I am rather gloomy about the trajectory of all this. I think that we are going to get into a lot of political and social trouble and it's not going to be necessarily an orderly situation out there.

Jay:  Well, on [account of the fourth] turning, it could be even the possibility of some kind of insurrection or revolution or possibly even a breaking up of the country and the regions.

James:  Well, these things happen. I mean, I said as much in own book that its not written in stone that the U.S. is going to remain exactly the way we know it. In fact, we may fall into more regional governance as we start to get trouble with transportation and the transmission of goods. And I think that that's a very good possibility. I mean that's not going to happen overnight, I don't think. But it's definitely out there. It's possible.

Jay:  I worry about this a lot. I used to live in Los Angeles and in Seattle, and I'm sort of right in between right now. In that the middle of the west coast and I wonder about the inner city populations. And the loss of jobs that's going on everywhere right now especially, in the bottom 20% of the population. I don't hear a whole a lot about troubles in the inner city or anything and I'm wondering what you think is going to happen in those places?

James:  I think it's kind of weird the way these things fade in and out of our consciousness. And in and out of the headlines over the decades you know. There's been very little racial friction or grieving acting out of grievances in the last you know five years or so. I guess the Rodney King riots are the last.

Jay:  Yeah that was a long time ago.

James:  The last instances that.

Jay:  That was 14 years ago.

James:  well we go in and out of these periods where that happens. And we been out of it for awhile and I mean I don't think there's any question in that the poor people of color in cities are getting hit very hard. By the banking fiasco and the economic down turn that it leads to. And I know I think there's probably a lot of stuff that been going on there. And it's a matter of time before that stuff really expresses itself more vividly more then it has.

Jay:  So we could be on a danger of a kind of a LA riots situation?

James:  I don't want to go provoking anything or I don't want to sound like I'm promoting the idea.

Jay:  No.

James:  That it would be a good thing. I guess I'm saying that these things go in and out of the American experience. And we been in an out phase for a quite a while and its liable to come back in. There are just a lot of there are a lot of persistence in harents tensions in American life and they haven't gone away.

Jay:  And there not going away.

James:  One of the things that are happening is that you're seeing a certain amount of racial amnesty directed at the president. Because of who he is and it seems to me that could become more troublesome. But it's really the first expression you know it's the first expression of the grievances of poor white people. In a long time really since you know when I was young during the social justice era of the early 1960'some when you know we saw clash between the old southern status quo and the civil rites movement. And that was sort of the last time we saw a really emphatic white grievances movement. And it's starting to kind of gear up again and it's not a pretty thing when it happens.

Jay:  Oh no! And the thing is again its there's a trend towards centralization like with the healthcare. But to some people it looks kind of silly to be trying to create anything more then we don't have anything to pay for what we have.

James:  Well the whole thing is a very, very disturbing on many counts. I mean it's disturbing.

Jay:  Yeah.

James:  it's disturbing that the medical system is as screwed up as it is. And unjust and chaotic as it is and at the same time it's very unfortunate that we don't seem to have the money to really pay to improve it. So I have no idea where we go from there.

Jay:  I don't either. Then there's the simple mathematical problem. By their own account, they're going to add 50 ? I think more like 70 ? million people to the rolls. And that's all fine and dandy, but we're going to need 2?5 million doctors. And where are they going to come from? I don't know.

James:  I'm not a big believer in doing statistical analysis from extrapolation. I think we're going to see too many other things change in the meantime.

Jay:  I agree. I think all of this speculation is meaningless because the future is going to be so much weirder and different than we've thought and imagined it. We should just begin to live more simply, and then we can just surf with whatever happens as this thing cranks up.

James:  Well I do think that circumstances are going to compel us to live differently, whether we like it or not.

Jay:  It's already happening; it's just not happening that fast. It's interesting because in Los Angeles, if you drive to the Mexican neighborhoods, all the front yards are gardens, and all their backyards have chickens in them. And then, you drive to the other neighborhoods and the suburbs, and it's all lawns and everything. You just wonder when people are going to wise up that they have to start taking care of business. And those Mexicans are doing it, and everybody else is just falling behind. I think we need to take that kind of attitude all around. And I think you're right; I think the laws themselves are going to change. In our little small town, you can't have chickens and wildlife yet. But I have a feeling as this thing advances, they're going to start allowing people to have things in their yards that are not allowed now, because it'll be turned into more like a small town from the '30s, I think. Actually it could even go back to Thomas Hardy, couldn't it?

James:  Well it's possible, yeah. In my two fictional books, my two novels, about life in the future, one of the characters has, more or less, become a feudal lord in a little corner of the county. And I think that there will actually be quite a few people who feel that they're in a position where they have to trade their allegiance for security.

Jay:  I think you're right, and I remember that character. I think it's going to be moving in a lot of ways to some sort of new feudalism, and people may want the protection of the local wealthy guy because there could be roving bands. Who knows what's going to happen?

James:  Or even food security, just to have a meal everyday.

Jay:  Yes, I think you're right. I think what we have to do is...well we have to go is what we have to do. But I think what we have to do is just get as much of this information out as possible. Take a deep breath. Nothing's going wrong yet. And we'll be all right.

James:  Well I'm not really a 'gloom?and?doomer'. I have a lot of faith in human resilience, but I do think that the times will soon require us to think. And it always happens in human history and this is nothing new.

 

The Long Emergency

Part Three.

With

James Howard Kunstler

 

Jay Weidner: I'm Jay Weidner. Check out all of our great DVD’s at www.sacredmysteries.com. We have DVD’s on alchemy, sound yoga, sound healing and other subjects. We feature artists like Jonathan Goldman, Gregg Braden, neale Donald Walsch, Alberto Villoldo, Terence McKenna. Also check out my own web site at www.jayweidner.com and read all the high weirdness to be found there.

We're talking to James Howard Kunstler. The great writer, researcher, and journalist, who has brought us a lot of prescient facts over the last few years. And I'd like to hear what he says about what's about to happen. I'm sure you get this a lot, what do you think people should do? I mean at this point with the number of pressures and catastrophes just over the horizon? I mean, what can somebody do?

James:  Well, there's an awful lot for them to think about. You know, my opinion is it's very important to get out of debt. It's very important to consider where you're living and whether you're going to be able to continue living in that place. Basically whether your region has a future or not. And it's very important to think about what your vocation is, whether you can do something that will be useful to other people that will allow you incidentally to make a living.

Jay:  Well that's good advice. So we're going to decentralize? People are going to be moving out into the country I guess? And even more?

James:  No, I don't think that it's going to be quite like that.

Jay:  No?

James:  In fact I think we will see demographic shifts, but that they will be rather surprising. There's an assumption by a lot of people I talk to that if the suburbs get into trouble, then therefore everybody will move to the city. But I don't think that it's going to work out that way. And I don't think everybody's going to move to the country necessarily either. I think that what will happen is that the suburbs really have very poor prospects. So do our big American metroplex cities, you know. Virtually all of them, and they're quite different. I mean San Francisco, and New York, and Boston are not the same as Dallas, and Houston, and Atlanta.

But nonetheless they've all achieved a size and a scale that is not really going to be consistent with the energy realities of the future, and I think that they're going to contract substantially. And in some of these places the contraction is going to be more disorderly than in other places.

But I think they are going to contact, and that even as that occurs, they will densify at their old centers and along their waterfronts, and the places that have waterfronts are going to be in a more favorable situation. I mean, this is apart from whatever happens with climate change.

But I think that the action is actually going to be in the smaller towns and the smaller cities in America, the very places that have been deactivated and more or less depopulated in our time, in recent history. I think that they're going to become the places that have a much better chance of making it in the future as we confront these new energy realities, and what will in effect be necessarily a new scale of organized human life.

Jay:  So, we're not going to...?

James:  There's something I forgot. I left out something that's very important. You know, the places that are successful are going to be the places that have a meaningful relationship with agriculture, because we're going to have to grow more of our food close to home. We don't know how much, whether it's 10% or 80%, but we're going to have to do more of that. And the places where that's not possible are going to be places that are going to be very troubled.

Jay:  Yeah, well, that's true. And I think you're going to see places like... I guess I would say the cities you really don't want to be in, in my opinion, would be Albuquerque, Phoenix, Las Vegas, and I think maybe Southern California is not going to be a very good place to live in.

James:  Well I would agree with you on all of those, and I think that they're going to be very unfortunate places. You know, what's going to happen for awhile, maybe in Southern California, and in Phoenix and Tucson, is there will be sort of a fight between Anglos and Hispanics over who will occupy the terrain. And eventually we'll make the discovery that it will not support any substantial population of any ethnic group.

Jay:  That's right, and never has actually.

James:  No, it's been an unusual period where you know because we had a lot of cheap energy. Were just able to pump a lot of food and water into these places and you know. When you flow over Arizona you see all these irrigated circular farms with you know the great revolving irrigation machines. And you know it takes a lot of energy to do that and it's expensive. And were not going to be able to continue doing that. So those places are going to be in trouble I'm a little optimistic about places like the upper mid west. I think the great Lakes are a wonderful resource that has obviously fallen in and it's been deactivated fallen in to just use.

You go into these shipping towns in Northern Michigan and Wisconsin, Minnesota you know there's very little there anymore. They look like a kind of a former soviet back order up there. But it's a great inland sea very close to some of the best agricultural land in North America and I thing will become reactivated.

Jay:  And I would think Canada is going to probably do pretty well in the next few years too.

James:  They may actually even benefit from whatever climate change developments occur.

Jay:  well I mean the thing is that growing food is going to become very important. And we just seem to have a secluding reality is going on. Where we have on the one side this obvious to me a decentralization going back to local culture and food and maybe will be connected by the Internet. I don't know if they'll be enough energy for that. But then at the same time we have this really and its not just Obama it was Bush too and it's been going on for like a long time. It's kind of an attempt to keep trying to centralize authority in the Federal Government and getting us involved in all these incredibly insane wars. Which are draining the economy?

James:  Well I got to stop you for a minute because it's not as though power wasn't already concentrated in the Federal Government before George Bush came along.

Jay:  Well that's true.

James:  You know.

Jay:  It just seems to be driving in this [inaudible].

James:  You know in an increasing concentration of power and over the decades and really accelerating in the mid 20th century. And that was the high tide of the American industrial fossil fuel experience you know. By the time we were in the 60'some and 70'some and 80'some that was it that was the peak for us. And it's not surprising that's the point the central government was the most powerful. But it's been increasing less so.

Jay:  Well you definitely are an optimist in that's good. I want to hear more about anything else that you got coming down the line.

James:  Well I did finish a book this past week. I wrote a novel called World Made By Hand was published last year. And it was a novel said in the post oil future in Upstate New York.

The Long Emergerncy

Part Two.

With

James Howard Kuntsler.

 

Jay Weidner:  My new film Infinity: The Ultimate Trip is getting a lot of great reviews. I think it is the best film that www.sacredmysteries.com has ever released. The film examines life after death, infinity and many other subjects. Also check out our other new film Sophia Returning with John Lash. You have to go to www.sacredmysteries.com to see all of our great films

We're here tonight with James Howard Kunstler. James, what's your website? For people who want to see your stuff.

James:  www.kunstler.com.

Jay:   I really like what you're saying about this idea that it's exactly the opposite of what the conspiracy theories are saying because I really agree with that. I think we're actually heading towards a period of, actually, immense decentralization and I wonder what you thought of that.

James:  Well, yeah, I think that, that is probably going to be the trend and you know, although I tend to call it relocalization. I think we're going to see power and governments really devolve downward to a local level and you know, more and more, the action will be in our towns and I'm not even sure the counties are going to have a whole lot of say about things. One of the other big trends out there is that our government at all levels is becoming increasingly insolvent, unable to collect enough money to run itself, so that's going to be increasingly a problem too.

Jay:  That's happening in every place that I know about and every place that America.

James:  Are you in California?

Jay:  Oregon, we're in Southern Oregon.

James:  Oh, OK.

Jay:  And we're getting a lot of refugees coming up from California right now. There are a lot of both those with some money and those without any money. Freeway five which runs right up through Oregon is getting more hitchhikers than I've seen since the sixties and more people by the roadside. It looks like in two or three years its going to be refugee camps running up the west coast if things go on like they are. And the west coast is getting particularly hit hard because the real estate thing. But, you know, you should get kudos, because really and truly it was a banking crisis but the banking crisis was preceded by the skyrocketing oil prices which really were the last straw for about thirty percent of the households in America. And they can no longer get to work, they moved far away from their jobs where real estate was cheap like in Riverside and San Bernardino, outside of LA and they were driving long commutes and then the four dollar a gallon gas busted them and they couldn't make their house payment.

JamesAlso though, it's hard to say whether those people found themselves out of a job before they ended up having a problem commuting than a job that they no longer had.

Jay:  Well, it's true.

James:  All these things kind of converge and the banking crisis was well out of hand before the price of oil really skyrocketed in 2007, 2008. When I published The Long Emergency I had a chapter in there that was titled "the hallucinated economy".

Jay:  Yeah.

James:  And it was all about the housing fiasco. You can see it coming from a million miles away, I mean, you didn't have to be a PhD in economics to understand what was going on. It was just a lot of really bad lending, fraudulent securitization of debt, and the two words we never hear in connection with the housing/banking crisis, the two words we never hear are "swindle" and "fraud." But those are really the issues that were at the heart of it.

Jay:  Definitely, on all ends. And everybody's to blame, that's what's incredible about it. Interesting.

James:  Well not everybody, but, the bankers certainly are, and so are the people who bought houses under false pretenses, or even under wishful pretenses.

Jay:  Well, they did. And now we have the problem of what I call cascading crises, where we're getting them mounting, these crises. And right now gas prices have leveled off a little bit, but you know Mexico is due to become an importer of oil by 2012. And I was going to ask you, were they ever audited, the fields in Saudi Arabia, as far as we know?

James:  Well we do. What we know is that the figures for oil reserves in Saudi Arabia remain officially state secrets, because Aramco, the Saudi Arabian oil company, is a state agency. And they don't like to give out their information, and it's not to their advantage to give out information. They benefit from the world not knowing what their supplies are. Well interestingly, it was more or less made official today that Russia has surpassed Saudi Arabia as the world's leading oil producer. But you know, then again Russia is also probably past peak, and on the way down itself.

Jay:  Yeah, we don't know much about them, do we?

James:  Well, we don't know that much. We know pretty much what they are getting out of the ground. It's a little unclear what's left in there, but we have, I think, good reason to believe that they've peaked, and that they are on the way down.

Jay:  And they've just recently signed huge contracts with China, right? To pump a lot of oil down to China over the next decades, right? [background music starts]

James:  Russia? I'm not really sure what's going on with them and China. What we do know is, that as a general proposition, the state owned oil companies are changing the way the oil markets function. Because they are indeed making special favored customer contracts with other nations, rather than putting their oil on the auction block, which is what the futures markets are. And you know, we're going to see more and more of that. And what that portends to the United States is that, us not being one of the more favored nations in the world, and being the subject of a lot of grievance, and envy, and other negative feelings on the part of other nations, we're going to have trouble getting oil from these parts of the world now.

 

 

The Long Emergency

Part One.

With

James Howard Kunstler

 

Jay Weidner:  Welcome back. I’m Jay Weidner. You can check out my films at www.sacredmysteries.com or you can read my articles and other weird stuff at my own web site www.jayweidner.com. Also check out my newest film Infinity: The Ultimate Trip: Journey Beyond Death with Neale Donald Walsch, Gregg Braden, Brian Weiss and many others. Also check out our new Qi-Gong series with Pedram Shojai, This is the most comprehensive DVD series on Qi-Gong ever.

We’re talking to James Howard Kunstler. He is the author of the great book, "The Long Emergency, " and another book that I really like, "A World Made By Hand, " which I think would make a great low?budget movie, if anyone is out there listening that wants to make a movie, that would be a great low?budget. Film.

James has really gone into this whole thing about the peak oil, and where we're headed over the next few years, and it's a real pleasure to talk to you. Are you there?

James Howard Kunstler:  Yeah, I'm here.

Jay:  Great. Hey, listen, I was wondering, have you ever read the book, "The Fourth Turning?"

James:  Yes, I have.

Jay:  Yeah, it fits in in with the real politic that you're talking about. I just finished it a few weeks ago. I was really impressed.

James:  Yeah, I admired it quite a bit. It's maybe not what it seems to be from its title. It seems to have a sci?fi odor about it, but in fact, it's a very serious meditation on the generational cycles of history.

Jay:  Yeah.

James:  And the various moods of history. I think that it's got a lot of truth in it.

Jay:  Last night, for the first time my wife forced me to watch, "Gone With the Wind." I really didn't like the film, but while I was watching it, I realized that it was a film that was made during the last fourth turning about the previous fourth turning, which was the Civil War. It was, of course, made at the height of the Depression, which was the last fourth turning, of which we're heading for the next fourth turning according to the book, of which I'm sure the audience is going, "Huh? What are we talking about?"

Basically, it's just this theory that about every 85 years, or one long generation, the United States goes through a major upheaval from the Revolution to the Civil War to the Great Depression to the Long Emergency, which is a great name for what is going on here. It's not a great depression, it's worse in some ways than that.

Let’s concentrate on the good side of things, but before we do that, let's talk about what you're talking about. A lot of people get upset when you say that there's a peak oil, and that the world is running out of oil, and that the oil companies will tell you that there's more oil on earth than we could use in a million years.

What they're saying probably is true, but you're saying something different. You're saying that the crude oil, or the sweet crude, oil that's easy to get to, that's what we're running out of, right?

James:  Well, in a way, though we're beyond that now. Yeah, I think what I wrote in the book, "The Long Emergency, " it was about the end of cheap oil. That was the point, the end of cheap oil. But I think we're seeing some other things. There have been quite a few developments since 2005 when "The Long Emergency" was published. The oil problem is still very much with us, of course it was never really about running out of oil, per se. It was more about the failure and instability of the complex systems that we depend on for daily life in America, in the space of these instabilities. In the face of these discontinuities.

By complex systems, I mean the way we feed ourselves ? industrial style farming. The way we do commerce and trade. The way we do transportation, the way we inhabit the landscape. All of these systems of daily life are going to have to change pretty severely in the face of the circumstances that are upon us. We're not prepared to think about that at all.

Jay:  No, it's a huge gap in people's thinking, and it's really almost ? I can't quite explain it ? it's almost like a psychopathic reaction to reality.

James:  Well, let me try to explain it, because I don't think it's that abstruse, really.

Jay: Okay.

James:  I've said this to many a college lecture audience. I think that we are in the grips of something that I would describe as the psychology of previous investments. By the way, this is not a completely original though, either. This is the same as the concept of sunk cost. The psychology of previous investment really means that you've put so much of the resources of your culture ? the collective resources ? you've invested so much of the collective resources in a certain system, a certain way of doing things, that you can't imagine changing it or letting go of it. That's what we've done, we've elaborated a system for daily life in America that is very rigid and unadaptable.

We've invested also, our national identity in it. Now we can't let go of it. I'm especially talking about not something abstract, but about a very practical thing. The living arrangement that we have in America, which is essentially the suburban living arrangement.

The investments we've made in that are so horrendous and gigantic, that we can't imagine having to live without it, or do without it, or change it, or even modify it much. We're stuck with these investments at the moment, and it's the biggest obstacle for us to think about what we really have to do.

Jay:  Well, I can't even imagine, actually. If you go out to Riverside, California or San Bernardino County, which is east of Los Angeles, you're dealing with about a 35 percent foreclosure rate. They're turning into ghost towns.. I wouldn't live there, and if someone is living there, they have my pity. I'm sure the crime rates are starting to climb. People have found a way to absorb the crush of what's happened in the last year. They had a lot of good stores, they had a lot of wealth. They're grouping together with their families, and they think that it's over when, in fact, commercial real estate is really getting into a dangerous position right now, where it could just turn into almost a chain reaction and they could just all be closed down.

We're dealing with this thing, and I don't think anyone really realizes what kind of change is really at hand, where it's truly going to be a cultural change.

James:  There's been one major change since I published "The Long Emergency, " or, rather since the Atlantic Monthly Press published it in 2005. That is that we destroyed the banking system, or as the banking system destroyed itself. And we now find ourselves, and this is really the larger problem at the moment, and it even has implications for the energy situation, but the larger problem is that we, we can't generate any more debt, we can't pay back any more debt at all levels, you know, the household level, the corporate level, or the government level. We are comprehensively broke and we can no longer run a revolving credit society and that's really the larger problem now. We may not, you know, we may find that we're out of capital before, well before, we're out of gas. And this has implications for the whole oil industry as well because what we're seeing is a lack of capitol to make investments in new oil exploration and development and a lot of the projects that we had hoped would be coming online to address the ongoing depletion, those projects are not going online, and we're not going to compensate for the ongoing depletion and this is going to have kind of an accelerating, snowballing effect. And I think it's a lack of capital may be what finally puts us out of business with oil rather than sheer depletion.

Jay:  Well let me ask you, if we get into a position like that, honestly, aren't we going to be so weak that we're either going to have what Gore Vidal thinks which is a military dictatorship, or the Chinese could take advantage of the situation?

James:  Well I don't think the Chinese are going to be landing in San Pedro anytime soon. And I also, you know, I like to say that I'm allergic to conspiracy theories. I'm especially allergic to grandiose theories. I think this idea that we're going to fall into a military dictatorship is kind of grandiose. If anything, I think that we will see that the federal government will become increasingly impotent and ineffective and that's exactly what we're seeing now. We just voted out the Republicans and we voted in a Democratic president and a Democratic administration and Congress, and you know, we are making the unhappy discovery that Mr. Obama seems to be just as ineffective as Mr. Bush was. I hate to add, I voted for Mr. Obama.

Jay:  Well yeah, a lot of people did.

James:  And I'm not sorry I did but cause I think he's a better quality person than the previous president but it shows how ineffective the central government really is. I don't really think they'll be able to organize any kind of a fascist regime.

 

The Jehovah Hoax

Part Four.

With

Archaya S.

Jay Weidner:   My name is Jay Weidner. You can check out all of our great films and videos at www.sacredmysteries.com. We have films with Alex Grey, Alberto Villoldo, Neale Donald Walsch, Gregg Braden, Brian Weiss, Terence McKenna and many others.

Acharya, I was wondering if you ever ? I presume from looking at your site and reading your work, that you've made the connection between ancient Egypt and Christianity and the strange analogies between Osiris and God and Horace and Jesus and Isis and Mary and Satan and Seth. I've quit saying Judean Christianity, I now say Egyto?Christianity because it's really more Egyptian than it is Jewish, isn't it?

Acharya:  Isn't it amazing? You just encapsulated it very well. Yes, you know ? yes, you were speaking of "Zeitgeist" earlier. In fact, that first part of the first "Zeitgeist" was an insignificant part by my book. So I have had to come out with more wonders material to assure the people who have seen that, that there was serious, scholarly, scientific evidence for the claims in that movie. That led to this companion guide which was a partial exploration of the Egyptian connections in "Zeitgeist." Then I wrote this massive study called "Christ in Egypt: The Horace?Jesus Connection," that goes into the details of ? you have this list of Horace born on December 25 of the virgin Isis?Mary, and all those characteristics that were so similar to the Christ myth.

I put together from thousands of Egyptian texts. It was a very grueling past. I went through them in a number of different translations, of primary sources. There are hundreds and hundreds of different primary sources, I scoured. Some of it, I translated from Egyptian.

But I'd compared all these different resources, like 900 sources, in my book. There are 2,400 footnotes. It shows where all of these elements come from, what they mean, and that they really are real ? these parallels, these comparisons, these similarities ? between Egyptian religion and Christianity.

This looks like the most obvious thing imaginable in the Mediterranean was to Egypt, and its massive culture and monuments. There were so much of it that they couldn't be destroyed by the fanatics who have come since which would include, of course, Christians and the Muslims. They haven't been able to destroy all of it. Although, of course, in this era, we are seeing even more degradation and destruction going on, unfortunately.

That's religious fanaticism for you.

Jay:  Yep.

Acharya:  But yes, these comparisons are very profound. The Egyptian religion really has much more meaning to it than just crazy people worshiping crocodiles, and ibises, and crocs, and so forth. Their spirituality was tied into the earth itself, but also the cycles of nature. For example, Osiris was a night/sun god, but also represented water especially the Nile. The Nile over?flooding every year was claimed to be Osiris fertilizing the banks of Isis to create a new life of Horace. This was daily Egyptian perception of reality. Everything was animated by the gods, by sentiments, by divinity. It must have been just completely extraordinary to live in such a mind set.

Jay:  I agree. I completely agree with that. I think that waking up every day and having time and space be sacred, as they understood. I can't even imagine what it must have been like.

Acharya:  You can see it in expression in these magnificent buildings that they were able to create. We still don't know how with things like the Great Pyramid of Giza and so forth, how exactly they were able to manifest this unbelievable building. Then to think, the Temple of Karnack, it's just endless, all these tombs and so forth. They all had this divine meaning attached to them. By the way, it's been estimated since there were half a billion followers of the Egyptian religion over its period of 3,000 years or so. So this is not an insignificant portion of humanity. And they had tremendous influence on the surrounding cultures including the Judean one, which was only a couple of hundred miles away to Jerusalem. Really, it was not far. There was this well?worn Horace road that took them from Jerusalem to Egypt.

So this isn't like saying, "Oh, how could they've been influenced. They were so far away. They had to cross a major ocean of several thousand miles." No, they only had to just walk by foot a few hundred miles, and they were right in the heart of Egyptian territory.

So to say that there was no influence on the ? that this massive culture had no influence on the Judean one is just like saying that the Jews live in a vacuum, completely untouched by anyone around them.

Jay:  Yeah, well I agree with that. I think the course of the Egyptian influence is much more prevalent than we've been led to believe, including even in India. It seems to have some Egyptian influence. Or maybe Egypt has some Indian influences. I can't really decide which way it went. It depends on who was first, and it's kind of hard to tell. It looks like India might have been a little bit earlier than Egypt, but I really can't say. Some people tell me that Egypt is 100,000 years old. That's certainly what the priest told Horiatis that it was over 100,000 years old, so we don't know. But I suspect it's probably much older than we can believe.

There are all sorts of strange things in Egypt, too. There's a large slab of black granite that has about 10,000 hieroglyphics engraved in it. We stuck a toothpick down into the hieroglyph and the toothpick went down two inches in the black granite. This hieroglyph was probably about a quarter?of?an?inch?by?a?quarter?of?an?inch big. Now you tell me how ?

Acharya:  You would think it's drilled.

Jay:  Yeah, I mean not even a drill could do it that clean.

Acharya:  Yeah I know it's amazing. I listened to my friend, a dear old friend, Christopher Dunn, talk about the various tool?making, tool marks and so forth on these different monuments. Yeah, it's really fascinating. You look at that and you think, "Well, this is an advanced culture." Now, if that's the case, then their ideation as concerned to philosophy and religion and so forth, must also have been advanced. This, to me, is the great unexamined factor that I think I bring to the table. I contributed to a book about ancient technology that had to do with the monuments globally of this Ablasian culture, if you will. This whole religion that I have put the pieces of this puzzle together, absolutely goes with all of these megaliths that we find all over the planet from Stonehenge to this great pyramid and even older monuments.

In the Americas as well, I'm sure you know all about these incredible massive buildings, constructions that they're finding in South America and North America, that are aligned, archeo?astronomically aligned, to various milestones that were important to the ancient world all over the planet. The solstices, the equinoxes, the phases of the moon, something like Stonehenges actually, is actually a sort of celestial computer.

Now, if you combine that knowledge, that archeo?astronomical knowledge, with their religious devotion, in fact, that these simple Stonehenge are temples, that's where you have what we are now terming "astrotheology." This is what their religion was.

They combined this incredible advanced knowledge of the planetary bodies and earth's relationship to them with a sense of devotion and worship. That's where you get this term "astrotheology." That's it in a nutshell.

It's all over the planet. We find remains of it. They're finding more and more, as you say, with this black granite slab. You were talking about the priority of India and Egypt when you have something like Mohenjo?Daro in Egypt, in the Indus Valley that is really quite incredible. But then you also have this, that Nabta, in Egypt that is now like 6,000 years old, that they've found archeo?astronomical alignments with this temple site.

So yeah, there's this pinball going back and forth as far as the antiquity goes and priority goes. But it's being pushed back all the time. The antiquity of man and a possible knowledge that is, so that's all these thousands of years, being pushed back all the time. It's really fascinating.

Jay:  Well, it is. And, of course, there are also the oomparts which are the strange objects that are found in the strata that really shouldn't be there. Michael Cremo's work and Richard Thompson's work...And there are other things too. They won't even do the proper archaeological dig, like in North America or South America, because the scientists are completely convinced there's no point in it because all life began in Africa.

Acharya:  Yeah, right.

Jay:  It's just cherry?picked almost, what they choose to do and look at, and what they choose not to do and not to look at. The idea that Christianity was really purportedly put up by Paul to be a control agent for the Roman empire, I don't see how that could even be called in to dispute, especially when you study Paul and there are suspicious things that Paul is doing all the time.

Acharya:  I agree with you.

Jay:  This is a guy I wouldn't trust for anything, Acharya.

Acharya:  I think this is something that you would really enjoy because you're visually oriented with all your imagery put together; I have this new product called the "2010 Astro?theology Calendar." You can really see this Christian overlay that you were just talking about. You can really see how they usurped all kinds of pagan holidays, that they overtook them, and tried to Christianize them and so forth.

Jay:  Yep.

Acharya:  When you look at this calendar and see the days and see how they've had this astro?theological pagan meaning previously. I think that that would be a fascinating for you.

 

The Jehovah Hoax

Part Three

With Archaya S.

Jay Weidner:  We're all going to return to the sacred earth, hopefully, before this collapse of the economy and the world is over. I think sometimes that is really the only answer. I think the virtual reality of this world is disappearing in front of our eyes. A lot of people that are not preparing for what's about to happen are not going to make it. Maybe this is the way nature cleans out the place or something. I don't know. But if you're listening to this, you should be aware of what's something. Do you take care of yourself physically? Do you take care of yourself spiritually? You need to learn the truth. That's really all that's important.

I have a friend who's quite a well?known intellectual. He tells me that the Age of Aquarius is coming here within the next two years, around 2010. He assures me that Christianity will be completely disappeared off the planet in just a few years because he thinks that it was completely a Piscean cultural phenomena, I guess you would say.

Acharya:  Yes. I believe that Jesus Christ is a mythical figure who was contrived by the priesthood in order to unify the Roman Empire under one state of religion.

Jay:  Yes, some theory.

Acharya:  Other than that, they differ with the details. Now, all this stuff, including what you brought up earlier about the old testament figures being mythical, this is only in my first published book which is called "The Christ Conspiracy: the Greatest Story Ever Sold." I delve into this notion that there is no historical evidence for Moses, the exodus, Abraham, Solomon.

Jay:  Yes.

Acharya:  Abraham and Sarah seemed to be the Indian god and goddess Brahma and Saraswati. I go into this kind of detail in "The Christ Conspiracy," as well as what you were just talking about, this whole Piscean, Aquarian timeline. That it appears, if you go and look at the meanings of these myths and you find out that they are astrotheological ? they have to with the sun, the moon, the stars and the constellations, and so forth ? that we are dealing with these ages, these procession of the equinoxes that's spelled every 2,150 years or so, the sun is back dropped by a new constellation at the horizon as it rises. That's called heliacally. That's where these age names come from. The ancients were pretty well aware, the more educated the priesthoods and so forth, they were pretty well of these various ages, both dated with the possession of the equinoxes and, in fact, of course they started to name them and chart them way back then.

There's a no man's land, so to speak, in between the different ages of a couple of hundred years or so. So I haven't really been able to get a straight answer from an astronomer as to when exactly these ages would change. Like they say, there's this, this comes in a sketchy period.

But around 2,100, 2,025, maybe more or less, years ago, we supposedly moved into a new age. The technology back then was different, obviously, than what we use today, this chart time and so forth. But there was this belief that we were moving in to the age of Pisces. That's why we have all of this discussion in the New Testament about fish.

These are the fishermen. There's the fish on the back of people's cars as actually an ancient symbol. There are the fishes, the communion food because when Christ is resurrected, He asked for fish. It's like, "Why would the resurrected God need some food?" This is a hint that we are dealing with this astrotheological development here.

Prior to that, we had Moses and he's destroying the bull worship, and kind of raising up a lamb. They're starting to slaughter fewer bulls in the Judaic practices and more lambs.

Jay:  As we go from Taurus to Aries.

Acharya:  Exactly. Then the calling of the shofar, the ram's horn, and so forth. There's this whole lamb stuff going on there. We find that in other cultures as well.

Jay:  That's right.

Acharya:  We find that other gods, they're associated with the lamb, with Krishna and Horace and so forth. All these motifs start to become very common and very obvious. They're much more interesting. The way they incorporated all these cosmic elements into the religious god and mythology of the day is much more interesting than the story of god coming to earth 2,000 years ago, and this little backwater is filling 90 miles, the area of where the gospel story supposedly took place. This tiny, little backwater in the desert region that does supposedly came to earth at that time. For a few years, he ministered for like two or three years and then was killed. And that's how God is going to fix the sins of the world. This story has really become corrupt and not very attractive or interesting at all. In fact, it's been a source of a lot of grief on this planet, to say the least.

Jay:  That's for sure, yes.

Acharya:  I don't want to see it replaced by anything worse either.

Jay:  No, I don't either.

Acharya:  The best way through all of this, as far as I'm concerned, is to know what this motifs stand for. That no culture has a lock on god. No culture is depicting accurately 100 percent. There also has to be room for this idea that we don't need to follow an organized religion. We do have innate morality. That will allow us not to destroy our neighbor in the name of religion, in the name of God. Not to try to enslave our neighbors and other human beings in the name of this God. As you say, if you studied the history and origins of religion, then you are free, really, of that belief because you start to realize there's a much bigger meaning to this stuff. And it doesn't have to do with one guy who's dictating rules, so we all have to follow or we're killed or whatever.

Jay:  Yeah I agree. I think it's beginning. I think books like what you're doing, the books that you're writing and things like these are really the beginning of the serious reeducation about what religions are. I think you're right, religions, especially Christianity, was created by the Romans to control populations because it was too hard. The Roman Empire was too big. I'm Jay Weidner. You're listening to "Smoke and Mirrors." We'll be right back. Thanks for listening.

 

The Jehovah Hoax

Part Two

With Archaya S.

 

Jay Weidner: I want to remind everyone about our great films and videos at www.sacredmysteries.com. You can also read my articles at www.jayweidner.com. We're talking to Acharya S. about her site is www.truthbeknown.com. We're talking about the origins of religion and Christianity and all sorts of good things. Acharya, do you know about this new book that, I believe it's in Hebrew but it's being translated right now. It's called "How the Jews Invented Their History?"

Acharya:  I don't know that one, no.

Jay:   I haven't read it, but this is a book written by the head of the history department at Tel Aviv University. It's the number one bestseller in Israel, and has been for a year now. It is being translated. This guy proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that there was no Moses, that there was no Solomon, there was no David, that the Jews actually rewrote their history to back?date it because they were so jealous of the Greeks. They back?dated it so it looked like the Jewish God was giving the scoop long before the Greeks. What's interesting about this though is the Jewish god, as you well know, is Yahweh or, translated into Latin or English is, Jove or Jehovah. But Jehovah is Jove which is Jupiter, which is Zeus essentially.

Acharya:  That's right, yes.

Jay:  So the Jews and the Christians have essentially been worshipping Zeus for 2,000 years. And they talk about us worshipping pagan gods and things. It just cracks me up. I mean, here it is. Their name is Jehovah. I have a church down the street from me called Jehovah Witnesses. They knock on my door and I tell them, "Oh, so you're the witnesses for Zeus." hey don't get it. It's right there in the title of their god. What Zeus essentially did, according to this book, was he fired all the other gods and made himself the only god. Really.

Acharya:  Well, that's the kind of what is called he?knows?he?ism, but they kind of shared, in the Olympic pantheon, they kind of shared powers and so forth. But he certainly was the top dog. He had the last word. But you see that they're always bickering amongst themselves, and the Greek gods, the big stories. It reminds me of when I was a kid. I was very fond of reading the stories of Greek myths. They were great. They were colorful. They reflected humanity in its many forms, good or bad. You didn't have to believe in them in this era. They weren't going to get you if you didn't believe in them, which is a little bit different from the Judea of Christian Islamic tradition.

If you don't believe in them right now, if you don't believe in Yahweh, Allah, God, the Old Testament, the nasty guy, then he's going to get you for even hell and even Jesus is going to torture you according to the New Testament and so forth. It never ends. There's always this threatening and jumping on your case.

So, the Greek gods, they're a little bit more playful and they're a little more accepting of the human condition, human nature. But at the same time, I didn't find the explanations of the myths to be all that satisfying. There's a lot of psycho battle. And yes, that's great. It's how teaching us about our inner spirituality and so forth, and our psychological make?up. That's great, and that's very helpful to humanity.

But there's also this whole hidden layer that almost never gets exposed, that is much more interesting to me because it goes beyond human neurosis and psychosis. And there's only so much of that that I can take. It's like watching a soap opera on a loop, endlessly.

But this grandiose cosmic theme that has been recorded in this nest is far more interesting after a certain point. It has to do with how profound is the effect of the sun on the earth, for example; how much we need the solar cycle for life to continue; the affect of the sun's rays in the moon, and having that second night light.

All these wonderful qualities of the sky, both day and night, as well as the earthly factors like the wind and water and so forth, they were all relished as something with meaning. To the point of having divinity bestowed upon them by the human perception.

I rather like that perception because it gives you the feeling of when you're, I always do this as an example because it strikes me constantly, and I still climb mountains and see wonderful views. I climb a mountain and I stood up there, and this magnificent sunset, and the waves of hills in front of me or other mountains, and the sky is a riot of colors and it extends out into the Cosmos for all eternity, for infinity, to plug your newest project.

So you can sit there and experience that, and really understand. That's the meaning that's trying to be conveyed by our most profound spiritual position.

Jay:  Yes. I completely agree with that. I think that returning to the sacred earth is probably the real way out of our predicament right now. My name is Jay Weidner. We're going to take a break. We're here with Acharya S. talking about religions and their lack of illumination maybe, even their lack of credibility in some cases. Anyway, I'm Jay Weidner. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening. Make sure you look up that article, "The Shining Shining."

 

 

 

The Jehovah Hoax

Part One

With Archaya S.

Jay Weidner:   I want to remind everyone that my new film, "Infinity: The Ultimate Trip" is now out across the United States and showing, and to critical acclaim, I might add. If you're interested, go to www.sacredmysteries.com and see if you can find where it's showing in your area. Also if you want to read many of my articles they are up at my web site www.jayweidner.com.

To understand how to get out of the mess we're in, and to move into the future I think we have to understand our past. Our past is really almost an illusion. And almost everything that we've been taught is just not the way it really is. So I wanted to have Acharya S.

Acharya S. who has written all about the incredible subject of the history of religion.

She's written "Who is Jesus," "Christ in Egypt," and The Companion Book to "Zeitgeist." I think she had something to do even with the "Zeitgeist film." She has some very, very, very strong opinions about religion. Are you there?

Acharya S.:  I am. Hello. How are you?

Jay:  You are. Well, welcome to the show.

Acharya:  Thank you, but I like your intro to give a positive thing on this information.

Jay:  Well, it is. When I learned the truth about religion, my life got better. I think that that's really important to learn what it was that was going on back there so we can really begin to understand the, dare I say, mind control that we've been under for a couple of thousand years.

Acharya:  Oh, I absolutely agree. When you discover the origins of religious ideologies, traditions, motifs, myths, then it's extremely liberating. This information in its proper context is beyond fascinating to me. I find it just to be astounding, it gives me a reason for being, and it allows me to feel the thrill of being alive. So actually the way I'd like to present this information is that, I'm digging up a nursing fact that has long been buried. They could just be little facts over here and there, they may be major facts, but it's just a continual process of overlaying that are so incredibly interesting and so reflective of a very long process of human thought that dates back tens of thousands of years.

They very much define who we are in the present time. So in order to, as you said, to know where we're going, we need to know where we've been. And stripping off a number of misrepresentations, misconceptions, outright falsehood, and so forth, to reveal the pure innocent nature of a religious ideation, it goes a long way to restoring our collective souls, as far as I'm concerned.

Jay:  I like that. So, tell me, did the hoax ? or I shouldn't say a hoax. Let's not call it a "hoax" here. Let's hear your view on it. I don't want to put any presuppositions on. So, in your view, what are the origins of Christianity, for instance?

Acharya:  Let's put it this way. If you go back far enough beyond let's say the Christian religion into paganism and you start looking at the gods of older cultures, and you look at the attitude that we have towards them today and our interpretation of them, you see that, for example, I always use the example of Hercules because most people know about Hercules, this God?man, this Greek god?man who supposedly walked the earth ? and had all these adventures, throwing off supernatural powers and amazing strength, and a godly ability. He was half?god and half?human. So that story pre?dates with Christian era by hundreds of years. It developed in many different places, had about different flavors added to it, where it went all over the Mediterranean, with different cultures over a period of hundreds of years, so it's really this extraordinary tale, this mythology that developed.

Back 2,500 years ago, let's say, the people who are followers of this Hercules religion ? and there were many of them all over the Mediterranean and particularly in Greece ? would have considered this story to have taken place in real time. He was a historical character. They really believed he walked the earth.

Now today, we look back and we are taught from childhood ? and rightly so, I believe ? that Hercules is a mythical character, a mythical figure. And so, we don't have a problem with that. If I went up to you and I said, "Oh, Hercules is a mythical figure," you would not react in rage and start telling me that he is your Lord and savior, and I better be quiet, or I'm insulting your religion.

So generally speaking, that's not going to happen. And so, we have this going on this modern era that we look at that particular culture, in that particular god and so forth, and we say, "That's a mythical figure." Now, back then, 2,500 years ago, you could actually be killed for that. That would be blasphemy. And there was a capital offense associated with that. Today, we have no problem with this.

Now, so let's look at that character and see ? we'll look at all these correspondences he has for these figure. Son of God, mother is debatably a virgin but she certainly is a mortal and she was impregnated by a godly figure, the Father God, Zeus. He does these extraordinary, super?human activities on planet Earth, some of which could save humanity and so forth.

Then he has this struggle with the 12, this interaction with the 12 past Hercules and so forth. They have this most chief of the gods, the son of God with the 12. So you start looking at what does that reflect, because now we start finding this motive with the son of God with the 12, or the God they figure the divine man, whatever, with the twelve and all these other adventures. They're born of virgins and so forth.

So we're looking at that and we realize there's this archetype. The archetype actually is not meaningless. Like most archetypes, not all archetypes, certainly have meaning. That's what establishes them as archetypes.

Now, this one happens to have what has been termed "astrotheological root." It has origins in nature worship, observation of the movement, the daily and annually movements of the various celestial bodies including the moon, the stars, constellations, planets, and extending into who the earth itself and many other factors that the earth and the sun and the moon and stars contribute to and produce.

Then you have to start wondering why is this story, when it's applied to Hercules, Mithra, Krishna, Horace, Osiris, and various gods and goddesses throughout the world, why is that mythology. But then when a very similar tale with numerous details and motifs that are quite alike, these other myths, why is that taken as history when it happens in another culture which, in this case, happen to be the Jewish culture of the first century.

Now, that's to be taken as history. A large segment of the population insist that that actually happened in the third dimension 2,000 years ago when, essentially, we have a very similar story and pattern and a number of motifs in other cultures and it's taken to be myth. So, in reality, there really is no evidence that this took place on planet earth.

Jay:  Yes.

Acharya:  I'm referring specifically about the gospel stories, which I just sort of gave a general outline of.

Jay:  Yes.

Acharya:  There's no serious, credible scientific, valid evidence or proof of this happening in the third dimension in that part of world, in that culture. Indeed when you start examining the story n great detail, in its proper context, with all these other different cultures around using the primary sources in their original languages, wherever we can find them, and you look at the story in the Mediterranean, you start to see that this could only have been contrived in the same way that we believe the priesthoods of other cultures can try their myths. In other words, if we could just name these myths Zeus and Hercules and Krishna and Mithra and Horace and all these characters, I say these myths because that's what most people think, calling them myths means, but if we were to deem them myths, then we also must look at our own current sacred cows as being myths as well, created by the same processes or the same priesthood over and over again, the same story.

 

The Nine Gates. Part Four.

With

Carl Johan Calleman

Jay:  So I love this idea of compressing time and one of my favorite subjects to talk about is movies. And in fact, I have a new article out right now called ``Secrets of the Shining,'' go to www.jayweidner.com, you can read it. It's about what Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, is really all about. So I'm getting a lot of hits. But one of my other movies that I write about ? I haven't put the article up, because I was going to make it part of a book, is Titanic by Cameron. What I'm interested... what made me interested in the movie Titanic, was the fact that it was the biggest selling movie of all time. And it made like, you know, three billion dollars; by the time it finally went out of release.

More than anybody's ever made, before or since, on a movie. So I wondered what it was, that was hitting the public. This was eleven years ago, 1998. And so I went to see it and I enjoyed it.

And I just thought about it and I realized why the movie was a big hit. And the reason that the movie is a big hit, was because we know what's going to happen in the movie, before we see it. We know that Titanic's going down. So the drama of the movie is not that it's ending, the drama of the movie is how does it end, and what happens.

And the story is about, you know, a ship on the sea and the wilderness of the ocean. And it's divided up into classes. And one of the people says, you know, not even God can sink the Titanic. And the Captain turns all the engines on, so that he can get to New York faster than any boat ever in history.

And his reaction times are shortened because of this. And in fact, this is the reason why they hit the iceberg and sink.

And what I'm saying is, is that, it's just like the Cliff High's computer work and there's a... there seems to be this collective unconscious that wanted to go see that movie and realize that it's really the story of the next 15 years of their lives.

As we who were on the Titanic, with our reaction times getting shortened by the moment, where any mistake can destroy the whole thing. Isn't that kind of what's going on?

Carl:  I think so.

Jay:  [laughs] Are you an optimist? Are you an optimist or a pessimist?

Carl:  I'm... well ? are you referring to something special, or...

Jay:  Well, do you think at the end of this... are we going to be better off at the end of this?

Carl:  Oh, absolutely. I think a lot of people will be much better off. But from another perspective of course, the values will be ? what I do believe is that this world that is coming out of this will be a world of peace; it will be a balanced world. I think it will be a world of safety, and I think it will be a world, basically on happiness. And so in that sense, I am an optimist. But if you ask me as my personality?wise, I think I'm... I'm more or less a little bit on the more, more pessimistic side, or I don't know really. But in terms of what the plan is, I think I can really see a plan for this thing.

But of course, that's not what everybody wants to ? in what they would consider a better life, but I think it is what some people would consider a better life, but not everyone. Certainly not.

Jay:  Well, who would be a ... Who are the people that would think it's a better life?

Carl:  That would think it's a better life...

Jay:  Yes.

Carl:  Oh, I think basically all spiritual people. All people that want to see the unity in everything. I think our perspectives are changing with these cosmic forces that I mentioned. And so we're going to a world where all the filters that we've had so far, from seeing things the way they really are, from seeing the unity of everything, those filters are being removed.

And that's suppose for good, and it maybe painful for some people, but I think, basically that will lead the humanity to seeing the beauty in everything, seeing the unity in everything, seeing the spirit in everything that we haven't really been doing in the past.

And so I think this is a better world, but it's not a better world for the... I would say the stock brokers, and a lot of people that have other ideals about what constitutes a good life.

Jay:  But I think we built a virtual world, and it wasn't real. And, you know, you watch the stock market collapses, and then, serious guys who of course failed to predict any of this, get on TV and tell you that the United States was 40 percent of its wealth. The United States doesn't have... you didn't have it, to begin with.

Carl:  [laughs]

Jay:  It's just hilarious. And people are killing themselves because they lost wealth that they never had, and it's just a game.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  And that world is disappearing, and thanks be, that that's happening, because I was getting real tired of that one.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  And so, I agree with you. I think we're... we are on the edge of something, and I think your work is just really, really, really incredible, because you actually take the chances of actually making predictions as we go. So we're going to have another big change coming, next June, right?

Carl:  No, July I was saying.

Jay:  July?

Carl:  Or the whole fall ? next fall I would say, starting in July.

Jay:  Yeah.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  And then going all the way up through to November, right?

Carl:  Ah?

Jay:  Of 2010.

Carl:  Then I would say yes, that's right. Yeah. I mean, I don't think there will be any real pulsing for us until October 28, 2011. I think things will just be shifting and shifting... and so...

Jay:  Confusion.

Carl:  I don't think there will be any time period where we can say, ``Oh, I don't think much will happen in that time period.'' I think that...

Jay:  Everything will be happening.

Carl:  Yeah, I think so.

Jay:  [laughs] That's very diplomatic, by the way.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  Yeah, I agree with you. I have a numerologist friend who does numerology for big corporations and people, and she told me that, you know, she hasn't had... there are no good readings until late 2011. In other words, yeah, very interesting. She had no good readings.

Carl:  Yeah? The whole thing?

Jay:  Everybody that she does, it's just not good. And she tells everybody to hide and that, you know, all of the sudden it gets better, she says, you know, around that time. So pretty interesting.

Carl:  OK, good. Yeah.

Jay:  Yeah.

Carl:  Makes sense to me.

Jay:  And so how did... so I really don't have much time here, maybe a minute or two ? tell me anything that you want to say, and also tell everyone how they could go to your website and get what your books are, and all that.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  So this is quick shop[?]

Carl:  Oh, OK. Yes. And well, my website then is, calleman.com, and I have a series of articles there that I've been updating for the past couple of months. And I'm preparing now a new article on the coming 6th night. I also want to mention that I'm coming out with a new book, only two weeks from now, it will be released. It's called, ``The Purposeful Universe.'' How quantum theory and Mayan cosmology explain the origin and evolution of life.

And it's different in content to what we've been talking about here, because it deals with a new theory of biological evolution. And so it's not about the future, but it's ? at the same time, it's really like a presentation of a Universe, where quantum shifts emanating from a big cross, which is the tree of life in ancient mythology.

It's a quantum shift in polarities from... emanating from this, is bringing about all the kind of evolution that we're seeing. Jay and I here, we've been talking about the effects in the immediate future, and so forth.

But this book deals with the whole history of the Universe going back to the big bang, which really wasn't... it certainly was an explosion, but the primary event of the big bang was the birth of this huge three?dimensional cross that the ancient talks about as the tree of life.

And so, I'm very excited and very happy about this book, because it really brings together many, many different disciplines that have been previously looked upon as being separate.

I should also say that, we have a website called ``The Mayan Calendar Portal,'' which brings together a number of websites or people in different parts of the world, that adhere to this view that it's not just one line that is coming to an end here.

But that there are nine different cosmic forces that are now going to be manifesting and they're speeding up according to a certain pattern.

And people have different takes on it, of course, but we do have this common framework that we are discussing from.

 

The Nine Gates Part Three

With Carl Johan Calleman

 

Jay:  But anyway, getting back to this very fascinating idea of this kind of tapestry of time that you are talking about, I want to get to this ? that around November 8th of coming up here, is the 6th night, according to your calculations which I guess means... what? There are three more nights after this?

Carl:  No. It wouldn't mean that. There are nine levels that are going to come to a conclusion at the same time. And each of these levels are composed of seven days and six nights.

Jay:  Ah.

Carl:  ... but they are... they get increasingly shorter, meaning that, the shift will become more frequent on the 9th level that hasn't yet started. So we... at the same... we're coming to the last night on the eight sublevels ? the galactic underworld. But then, there's another underworld, another cosmic force, if you will, that hasn't yet been activated. And that will be activated in the years ahead. And it's the interaction of those that will determine this whole transformation of a new world. The way I look upon it, into a new world. Transformation into a new world.

So the 6th night is the last night of the galactic underworld, and the 9th underworld, the universal underworld, which cuts off the whole process, hasn't yet been activated. And that also includes nights and days and so forth.

Jay:  Each getting compressing and getting tighter and closing.

Carl:  Exactly, yes.

Jay:  And so when does this 9th...the 9th part of the progression, when does that start?

Carl:  Well, there are two ? it starts March 8, 2011, but there is also like a preceding cycle, you might say, which will start July 17, 18, 2010.

Jay:  What do you see happening there?

Carl:  I see ? that's a really very, what you say, revolutionary cycle, you might say.

Jay:  Really?

Carl:  If I make the parallels... there are two parallels that are very clear as I would say. One parallel, time?wise, is the period 1498 to 1617. In other words the renaissance that brought in the feudal society, and created the world of Capitalists and Protestants, and Science and so forth. The second one is the one that many of us remember. That's the time period, 1986 to 1992, which was the time when we saw all the downfall of all these non?democratic or the whole thing of Eastern Europe, and that transformation.

Jay:  The velvet revolutions.

Carl:  Right. All the revolutions that brought the fall of the Berlin wall, and the downfall of the Soviet empire. But this time it will be coming again, but it will be much more condensed. Because the shift will be happening on a higher frequency on this level. And so it will be condensed to only the fall, basically, of 2010.

Jay:  I get you, yeah.

Carl:  So... so...

Jay:  Very interesting. Are you familiar with my work on The Topology of Time? About how time corkscrews as it begins to tighten and it compresses into a vortex which begins almost folding in on itself. That's why I'm really interested in your work, because it almost sounds like you discovered this... yeah exactly ? through this the Mayans.

Carl:  Yeah, it's been...

Jay:  So everything is going to get going quicker and faster and our reaction times are going to be shortened.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  So we're in a world of extreme danger too, right?

Carl:  I would say so. Danger ? one thing I think is that, our old way of, when we were young ? I guess you maybe my age or something like that ? we were... we could plan 10 years ahead, maybe. And it wasn't that... I mean it may not have turned out that way, but I think it wasn't that stupid too, to make a plan for 10 years. But we will not be able to do those kinds of things anymore. We can't approach reality just rationally trying to plan, and accumulate, and set a life?line if you're young ? of 20 or 40 years, or something like that ? we will have to rely on really being in the flow.

Really tuning in to the cosmic source. Really intuitively base our decisions, not on sort of rational logic, but just being in the present and going with the flow.

And that's the safest we can find I believe. That's the new... we will have to operate in that way. And if we are not able to do so, it will maybe... quite dangerous, yeah.

Jay:  Yeah. I think I actually... the analogy is sort of like surfing. A good surfer is not necessarily a good athlete, although it certainly helps. What makes a surfer really good is that they have this innate ability to be able to read the wave, and to go wherever the wave is going.

Carl:  Ah?

Jay:  And I think that's really the key to the future here, is we're going to have to just... I have a lot of people ? young people talk to me and they asked me what they should do in their life. I'm going to have to take a break here.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  And I really don't know what to say to them anymore.

Carl:  [laughs]

Jay:  Learn how to grow food, I guess