Sinister Forces

With Peter Levenda

Part Four

Jay Weidner: and I want to remind you that my new film Infinity:The Ultimate Trip is now out. Please go to www.sacredmysteries.com and look it up as well as my other new films Sophia Returning with John Lash and The Alchemy of Qi Gong with pedram Shojai. Also we have The Alchemical Dream with Terence McKenna and our two 2012 films: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Also go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my free articles that are up there.

Jay:  We're back. I don't want to waste any time here. I don't always have Peter Levenda on the line, so let's get right to it. So, Peter, now where were we? This was very interesting. So, this occult, the CIA is dabbling in the occult, and they are using techniques and things. And they really don't know what they are doing, causing a lot of damage. I don't think people really even understand the amount of damage that was caused. I wonder now about all those people in the late '70s, wandering around the streets of America, speaking to themselves, if they weren't some kind of casualty of some of these experiments, actually.

Peter:  Well, that was one of the points I was trying to make in "Sinister Forces" that what we did is we created an army of zombies, really, of people that were prisoners in some cases, violent offenders in prison, that we gave massive doses of LSD to, for instance, that we submitted to all sorts of bizarre experimentations. People took acid in the '60s for spiritual reasons. I mean, they were taking hallucinogens. They were taking like peyote, psilocybin, mescaline. They were trying to obtain altered states of consciousness, and the idea was to open their minds and to become spiritually aware but not everybody was. Sometimes, a lot of people were taking it for recreational purposes, if you can imagine taking LSD for recreational purposes. But anyway, so that was the intent, right?

Turn on, tune in, drop out. This was the intention of it, and yet these same chemicals, or the natural version such as the mushrooms and the peyote, were used in these experimentations on prisoners, on prostitutes without their knowledge, on children in some cases, in mental institutions for children.

So, this is all documented and none of the stuff we're discussing here is speculation. It's all based on primary sources, on real documents, declassified stuff from the Army and from CIA and from the FBI.

So, what you have is a massive government program that used the same tool as Shamans have been using for centuries, if not millennia, to open the doorways of the mind to enable a human being to contact supernatural forces or have spiritual experiences.

These same substances and these same techniques and the same methods are being used to create the perfect assassin??the so?called Manchurian Candidate kind of assassin. We're weaponizing spirituality, and we did this in the years right after the end of World War II. And this to me is what is so astonishing, that no one really picks up on this. [laughs]

The government programs were looked down upon, of course. And they said, "Well, that's just too bad. It was an abuse of power" and all of this. But there was much more to it than that. People who are involved in spiritual quests should realize that the government itself was involved without even knowing it in a spiritual quest, and they bungled it because there were no safeguards in place.

There was no context for the experiences. So this to me is frightening. So what did we create? Who's out there? [laughs] I sometimes wonder if some of the far more famous serial killers were products of this process.

Charles Manson. Not really a serial killer, but Charles Manson does come to mind as one of these characters. Maybe Henry Lee Lucas and a few others??people who had spent time in the military or at the prisons where these experiments were taking place. And they then came out and started committing horrible crimes. I'm wondering what the connections might be.

Jay:  Oh, I think it makes good sense to wonder about those connections. May Russell used to say back in the late seventies that the Son of Sam murders was a final test for an assassin school. Could you calmly kill two people in the front seat of their car police?style firing six times from your 44 magnum? And we thought, "Oh, you're crazy, May. That's the craziest thing we ever heard." But then you started looking at her evidence. One guy was blond, and another guy had black hair and another assassin had red hair. And it's like hmm. You know? Maybe.

Peter:  Well, I devoted a whole chapter in "Sinister Forces, " or actually a number of chapters spread out, on the Son of Sam case because I lived at New York during the time. I was connected to some of the events peripherally. And we all knew back in the late '70s in New York that this was not the work of one person. We knew it was the work of a group. And then later, of course, Berkowitz confessed to this. Even after he confessed to all of the crimes, et cetera, et cetera, he's in jail for life. He's never getting out. He knows that. So now he's coming clean. And he has talked about the people he was involved with. He has identified the murders he did commit because he did commit some of the murders, and he identified the murders he did not commit.

And as we were going through it??the Son of Sam killings in New York??I was painstakingly trying to figure out the calendar they were using. And I noticed, as I mentioned in "Sinister Forces," there was a kind of an occult calendar in effect. Murders being committed during certain periods of waning and waxing moons, et cetera, near pagan holidays, so on and so forth.

There was a cult?like connection to what was taking place. Now the Son of Sam case was reopened. It was reopened some years ago because all the new evidence came out and suggested very strongly that more than one person was involved.

So yeah. [laughs] The connection between serial murder, our intelligence, our bungled attempts at creating assassins, spiritual initiations, this abuse of shaman technology, if you will. All of this is all together in one very messy cauldron??one very messy witch's brew here??of evil things, evil intentions, and unforeseen consequences, which turned out to be just as evil.

Jay:  And it's like it's almost contagious. It's now gone beyond the seed, and it's a contagion. And it's spreading into the bowels of culture. It's astonishing to see kids today really think vampires are cool. I find it stunning because when I was young, I loved vampire movies but I never thought they were cool.

Peter:  [laughs] Exactly.

Jay:  They scared the living daylights out of me. [laughs] Go ahead.

Peter:  No, I was going to say exactly. As I mentioned, you were deconstructing "The Shining." We should start deconstructing all the movies that have come out in the last 30 years or so on the occult and how it's been re?engineered in a sense??re?imagined??in so many different ways. We pooh?pooh the occult from a scientific point of view, many people, but at the same time they're embracing it on the other hand. They're seeing it as cool. They're seeing it as sophisticated in some cases. Or they're...

Jay:  They have no idea what they're messing with.

Peter:  Right.

Jay:  They really don't, and this is what worries me. And you're right. I actually do deconstruct movies. It's like my hobby. I don't usually write it down. But I can pretty much tell you who's made the film, what their agenda was, what they're into. You know what I mean? It's getting to that point now where I can pretty much tell. And I'll tell you something. Kubrick is onto the same thing that you're onto. I haven't figured how to break this one yet, but Kubrick has films within films. And in "The Shining," the film within the film that no one has ever seen is about these sinister forces. And he literally builds them into the set and into the scenery, and it's quite astonishing actually.

He's basically saying that these forces have taken over this family??these unknown forces that are all around us. And if you allow them in, then they'll take you over and it's incredible. I don't know how to get it down on paper yet, but I'm working on it. Anyway.

Peter:  Well, the point I make in the last volume of "Sinister Forces" is that America itself is a kind of haunted house.

Jay:  It is.

Peter:  We're living with ghosts.

Jay:  Yes.

Peter:  We don't know it, but we're surrounded by them. We're just as ancient a civilization here as you would find in Egypt or anywhere in Europe or in Asia. There were people living here for thousands of years before. We don't know who they were or what they were doing. We built our cities on top of them, and that's just the beginning. Then there's the other ghosts we've created along the way. So, there are sinister forces. We are surrounded by them. We've been blind to them because of our materialism and our materialist approach to things, which we're now paying for, [laughs] you know?

Jay:  I agree. I'm obsessed with that subject. I was just talking to my wife today about where we live. Only 170 years have white people lived here in Southern Oregon, and we have no idea what was going on here before or what was sacred and what isn't sacred. And this is all over the country, too.

Peter:  Absolutely. [Indistinct]

Jay:  We have no idea. There's no connection to the land. There's no soil?to?soul relationship in America.

Peter:  No, we don't as Americans. We don't have that. We're probably unique among countries with that total disconnection from [laughs] our physical environment.

Jay:  And if you're spiritually literate, you know how important it is to have these places that were imbued with centuries of worship and sacred activity. I think you pointed out we might be building our prisons on sacred ground and building our churches on places that maybe where the evil was. We don't know what we're doing. We're just floundering around in the dark here.

Peter:  Well, exactly. And we have built our prisons on sacred ground. Moundsville, West Virginia comes to mind right away. We built a prison there where we famously kept Squeaky Fromme, one of the Manson followers??the one who tried to kill Gerald Ford. So we built a prison there. We build prisons in Ohio on top of Indian burial mounds. I find it interesting that in "The Shining" the hotel was supposedly built on an Indian burial site.

Jay:  Yup.

Peter:  That was part of the Stephen King story. So you have this idea there was an Indian burial ground there underneath the Overlook Hotel. In the film "Poltergeist" they built their home??their suburban tracts??on Indian burial ground. I mean there's this idea that's there. It's in the back of our minds, where we know there's something wrong. We know it. We just don't know how to deal with it. [Music begins]

Jay:  That's right, and we're haunted by the ghosts of an ancient civilization. We're standing on their bones. Quite incredible. Hey, Peter! I'd like to really have you back. We've really just scratched the surface of this. And I'd also want to talk to you next time about your book, "Stairway to Heaven." I'm really a big fan of Chinese alchemy and Daoism and just love that stuff.

Sinister Forces

With Peter Levenda

Part Three

Jay Weidner: and I want to remind you that my new film Infinity:The Ultimate Trip is now out. Please go to www.sacredmysteries.com and look it up as well as my other new films Sophia Returning with John Lash and The Alchemy of Qi Gong with pedram Shojai. Also we have The Alchemical Dream with terence McKenna and our two 2012 films: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Also go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my free articles that are up there.

Jay:  We're back, talking to Peter Levenda, and boy Peter, I've got to tell you, when I was writing my book on alchemy, the number of synchronicities, it was almost ludicrous after awhile. It felt like I was in a Salvatore Dali painting and everything had just turned into rubber watches that were melting on cliffs and, quite unbelievable actually, really to this day don't know what to make of it at all, honestly.

Peter:  Well, to me it's always an indication that you're on the right track. When these coincidences start to pile up, you've obviously tapped into the mother load of whatever it is you're working on. On some level, when the universe starts to organize itself around you that way and to present you with the tools that you need. Obviously, as I say, you're on the right track, whatever that track may happen to be. You may not realize it for awhile, but the coincidences, the synchronicities themselves, that's the evidenceJay to me. I view them as the evidence of darker??not darker, necessarily??but deeper forces that are at work, and they manifest as these synchronicities.

Jay:  You know, John Lash is a friend of mine. He wrote a book called "Not in His Image" which is a very good book. He talks about the Gnostic beliefs of these creatures that they call the Archons. When I read his book, I was recalling your work and realizing that, maybe, that was the best succinct explanation for what you're finding. Do you know this concept of the Archons at all?

Peter:  Of course, yes. I've been doing a lot of research in Gnosticism in the last five or six years for other work that I've been involved with. One of my other books went into that a little bit, "Stairway to Heaven", for instance.

Jay:  I saw that. I want to get that book. It looks like a great book. I just saw it. I haven't read it yet.

Peter:  It's not political [laughs] . It veers right off the politics into the??not necessarily the occult??but the esoteric anyway. So, to me all of this is all of the same book. I mean, "Unholy Alliance", "Sinister Forces", "Stairway to Heaven", all of it. They're all just chapters in one big book, in a sense what's in my head that I'm trying to write. I don't see any difference between the purely spiritual esoteric aspect and the gross or mundane political things that I write about in "Sinister Forces".

Jay:  I don't either.

Peter:  What I tried to show is that there was a spiritual force at work, and the Archons are a good way of describing what these spiritual forces might be.

Jay:  So, what are these Archons? What are they here for? Why are they screwing with us?

Peter:  Well, you may recall that the original Gnostic idea of Genesis, if we are to believe the Gnostic version of it, is that the creator of the world was not God. The creator of the world was what they called the demiurge, the demiourgos, which was a creature of its own; I think, kind of a monstrous entity that created the world. So, the Gnostics God in the story of Genesis is represented by the serpent. They do a complete twist on this. To the Gnostics, the earth itself, the materialism was evil, and only pure spirituality was good. So, it's this kind of Manichean idea of the forces of light versus darkness. So, the Archons might be what Jesus said in the gospel, referring to Satan as the king of this world. Maybe, that's a Gnostic reference. Maybe, the Archons are the rulers of this world in a sense, and that's why we come across them as, what I call, sinister forces because they can't be manipulated.

I believe that our own intelligence agencies, as an example, at one point in the 1950s, the 1960s when they tried to experiment on the human mind and they tried to use drugs, hypnosis, behavior modification, all of these various things, they were in our field. They were in our business, in a sense. They were in our house.

What they were doing was committing a kind of spiritual initiation on innocent victims, people who had no idea what was going on which meant that they had no spiritual training. They had no spiritual protection against what was taking place.

If we do believe in initiation, then when we take our beliefs about initiation, how it works, the technology of it and apply it towards what the CIA was doing, for instance, with MK?Ultra, with Artichoke and Bluebird and all the other programs they were running, Operation Ofmun and all the others, we can see that they had the necessary elements of spiritual initiation in place. They were using these things, but they were using them to weaponize them, and that's what, to me, caused all the problems.

I think that right at the end of World War II we had a chance to go in one direction or the other. And when we started importing the Nazi scientists and we started saying the ends justifies the means I think at that point we kind of lost our way, and we're still struggling to get back. We were abusing a spiritual process in my point of view.

Jay:  I completely agree. Is it possible that we through those spiritual crimes, so to speak; is it possible they let something in accidentally?

Peter:  Well, they did it on a localized level, for sure. They did it on the level of the hundreds and thousands of people that they worked this "magic" on.

Jay:  That might be enough, actually.

Peter:  Well, right, you know. And who knows? We could look at an analog with the atomic explosions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for instance, as being magical experiments, at least, having a spiritual analog, an occult analog, perhaps. I remember years ago someone had shown me a copy of the Catholic Missal, the Catholic prayer book that you use for the services during the week and on Sunday. There was a diagram on one page that blew me away. This missal had been published in the 1950s, and there was a picture of a mushroom cloud. This is in a Catholic prayer book, and underneath it in Latin was "ecce qui tollis peccata mundi" which translated means the whole key who takes away the sins of the world.

Jay:  Wow.

Peter:  And that juxtaposition of that mushroom cloud with that famous prayer that is said in Catholic churches daily was stunning, this idea that the atomic bomb was taking away the sins of the world. So, there was a belief at some point among some people that this was, not just a scientific thing, not just a military weapon that existed in its own world but that there were ramifications. There were connections to spiritual processes that were involved. So, it's possible that we did commit some sins. It's possible that we did let something in and that we have to deal with this now in a constructive way. I think the popularity of films that are coming out now??I know you do a lot of work on film, and I read your deconstruction of "The Shining." I thought it just blew me away. It was terrific.

Jay:  Thank you.

Peter:  There's a film coming out now, "Men Who Stare At Goats" based on a true story, based on the controlled remote viewing that was taking place in the military, and it's become a comedy. They turned it into what appears to be a comedy.

Jay:  That's hilarious.

Peter:  Well, it's the only way to deal with it, I guess, so that's what we have to figure out. There has to be a more constructive way of dealing with this.

Jay:  Well, I'm looking forward to seeing that film, actually. I read the original thing it was based on. We're going to be right back. We're talking to Peter Levenda. I'm Jay Weidner and you're listening to the Smoke and Mirrors Radio Hour. You can see my deconstruction of "The Shining" at JayWeidner.com and, believe me, that thing is causing some controversy.

Sinister Forces

With Peter Levenda

Part Two

Jay Weidner: and I want to remind you that my new film Infinity:The Ultimate Trip is now out. Please go to www.sacredmysteries.com and look it up as well as my other new films Sophia Returning with John Lash and The Alchemy of Qi Gong with pedram Shojai. Also we have The Alchemical Dream with terence McKenna and our two 2012 films: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Also go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my free articles that are up there.

And we're back, talking to Peter Levenda, I don't want to waste much time here. OK Peter, let's get back to the raid and I've known for a long time that they've bought up both sides of the Andes, Argentina and Chile, just from my travels. Which I always thought was a very clever little plan, and so what happened? He escaped through some system or underground or what?

Peter:  Well right, they had built underground tunnels in the first place when they developed the colony. What they did was they had torture and interrogation centers built there to interrogate political prisoners when Pinochet took over which was on September 11th, 1973. So they brought hard?core prisoners up there, political prisoners, people they really wanted to break. And they had developed a series of underground interrogation cells. And these cells could be monitored remotely. Which means that the person committing the interrogation and the torture could be in a separate room and electronically was able to torture prisoners at a distance using an electrical system.

Jay:  Wow.

Peter:  So he could actually torture several people at once using the electrical systems that were developed, by the way, by a man called Michael Vernon Townley, who was the son of the Ford Motor Company executive in Chile at the time. He was very pro?Nazi, the son was, very pro?fascist, pro?Nazi, very anti Salvador Allende who was their democratically elected president. So Townley invented this whole system, he had a flare for electronics and developed this and it was all done underground. When the raid took place, they found not only these torture cells, they also found the fact that the Germans at the estate were burying everything underground, including automobiles, including files and dossiers on people, including weapons. They had this fascination for building these underground tunnels and for putting everything under ground.

So when the raid actually took place at the colony, as I said, it was a massive military incursion, the leader of the group, used the underground tunnels as a way to get out. Got out on the other side of the Argentine border, because the colony is up in the mountains right close enough to the Argentine border to make that accessible, jumped over the border and was there for years in Argentina before he was finally located and brought back to stand trial in Chile. Which happened about, I think, about three years ago.

So he's been in Chile, he's still alive, Pinochet died, but Schaeffer is still alive. He was indicted for all sorts of human rights abuses. There are a lot of other possible charges that can be brought against him. They're still going through the documents they found at the colony, which probably includes a photocopy of my passport, by the way, because they took that away from me when I was there.

So I'm very eager to find out what's in the documents, but the Supreme Court has sealed, the Supreme Court of Chile has sealed all those documents and they say they're not going to let anybody see what's in there. So we're all very frustrated by this because I believe there's going to be evidence there of the involvement of other countries, in Colonia Dignidad, in torture interrogation cells, in the creation of this underground apparatus and everything else, so, we all want to know what's in those documents...

Jay:  Yeah.

Peter:  And unfortunately right now, we can't get at them.

Jay:  I have a sneaking suspicion we may never get them. Anyway, that's really interesting and that should segue right into the next thing which I want to talk about which is your "Magnum Opus, Sinister Forces, " but the thing about "Sinister Forces" that I think drives everybody crazy is the thing that drives me crazy about this kind of research which is that you can never really grab the monkey, I mean he's like...

Peter:  That's right.

Jay:  He's like slipping away all the time, right when you think you've got it, that's when you don't have it. And that's what you're dealing with in this. And there's this strange set of synchronicities that happen, and they happen to me, in this stuff, even though I'm not involved. I know that sounds strange. But there are actually synchronicities that lead me into weird things that happened in the "Sinister Forces," without me even being involved in it and it's very strange. One of the ones that just drives me crazy is the, maybe you know this, I don't know if it's in your book or not, but the right wing preacher who picked up Sirhan Sirhan hitchhiking and took him to the Ambassador Hotel? The night that he killed...

Peter:  Right, yes.

Jay:  And then a year later he picked up the, I'm trying to think, I think it was the housemate of, no it was the guy watching the house for Roman Polanski and picked him up and left him off at that house. And this guy is the only guy, besides the Manson family that was ever suspected of anything. He was in the other room listening to music, or something, while the murders were going on. And those kind of coincidences and synchronicities just drive me crazy. And your book was just a litany of them. It was a great work. Underrated I think, it's going to have a long life, I think.

Peter:  Well thank you, it's, the problem with "Sinister Forces," was the problem I had writing it. It lasted since through the Watergate period in the mid?seventies and I only finished it a couple of years ago. The research for it went on and on. And every time they de?classified more documents I had more to work with and to put in with the other pieces. Synchronicities, yes, they abounded. I wrote a lot of that book while I was overseas, so I was living in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. A place which is not known for having vast libraries of U.S. political documents and that sort of thing so, although I'm there, because I was there for other reasons, I'm doing the research for "Sinister Forces."

And every time I started a new chapter, whether it was on Charles Manson or whether it was on remote viewing or whatever it happened to be, I would be wandering around some weird little secondhand book stall in the tropics there in some small town or in Kuala Lumpur itself and I would find precisely the books that I needed.

Which is virtually impossible, you can't even imagine. These were not popular books; these were not books you could get in any regular bookstore. These were sometimes academic texts; these were hard to find works. They would be hard to find in this country. And then there they were..

Hi I’m Jay Weidner and I want to remind you that my new film Infinity:The Ultimate Trip is now out. Please
go to www.sacredmysteries.com and look it up as well as my other new films Sophia Returning with John Lash and
The Alchemy of Qi Gong with Pedram Shojai. Also we have The Alchemical Dream with Terence McKenna and our two 2012 films: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Also go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my free articles that are up there.

Peter Lavenda. He has written some incredible books "Unholy Alliance"
and his "Magnum opus, Sinister Forces," .I read Sinister Forces in
about four days and then I had to like take a vacation. And then I had to come
back and reread it again. Because I really couldn't quite believe what I was
reading. Very, very important books actually. So, Peter how are you?

Disclosure: Aryans, Mars
and the End of Days
An interview with Jay Weidner

Jay: O.K. What I'm about to say is going to sound very controversial, but I'll give you a quick breakdown of what's probably going on.

Lance: O.K. Good, good.

Jay: The powers that be are ruled by an inner group, and we will have a video series out next year called "The Sacred Geometry of Time", with Robert Lawlor, which is going to explain this in a much deeper way. But this group apparently knows all of the knowledge of the past, maybe as far back as several hundred thousand years. And they live here, on Earth; and they have lived here for a long time. But they've lived separately; until about 6, 000 years ago, they lived separately from us - some place on Earth, in a very nice place.

But, about 6, 000 years ago, the first of many alarms went off. And these alarms have to do with the advance of what we call the end of the Kali Yuga. 

Now, the beginning of the Kali Yuga was right near the beginning of the Mayan calendar, 3114 B.C. And it was the beginning of cities and writing and kingships and slavery and women as chattel and animal husbandry and farming and wars and walled cities and writing and science. 

And all those things actually began at the beginning of the Kali Yuga - not because we were getting better, but because we were getting worse. 

But not only because we were getting worse but because there was something going on: the reason those things came into being is because this group - that are human, but are different - went into action, because the beginning of the Kali Yuga, 6, 000 years ago, the beginning of the Mayan calendar, was a signal. 

A signal in a very long, long, long calendar - not 6, 000 years, but like 60, 000 years. And it said that the end of this age was going to come to an end, and the prophecy said that the sun would explode into gigantic solar flares, which would fry everything on Earth and cause huge Earth changes here on the planet. 

And this group knew all of this, because they had been through it before and they kept accurate records. So they went into action; and they took a lovely planet, filled with tribes of hunter-gatherers, and they transformed it into civilization. 

And they transformed it into civilization so that they could get out of here before the coronal-mass ejections hit. And that is what has been going on for over 5, 000, almost 6, 000, years. 

It is a central organizing principle, decided and governed by a group that we don't even know who they really are, for purposes which until recently have remained completely hidden and secret. 

And, they promised the managers that they're leaving behind, that they can have the underground shelters and everything; but I don't think that that's really going to help, because I just can't see how that could survive what is foretold. 

And the secret space program and all of these things - flying saucers, and bases on the moon, and the Nazis and Joseph Farrell's great book on the alchemy that the Nazis were doing - this is all part of this group developing the technology for what I call "Project GOOD", which stands for "Get Out Of Dodge". And they're getting' out of Dodge, baby; and they're almost out.

And, if you follow the work of Ed Grimsley - I don't know if you know who he is. He has these night-vision goggles, and he goes out at night and he videotapes these craft that you can't see with your eyes. You can type him in on Google. On YouTube, they've got a few astounding videos that he's taken of the gigantic craft.

And that's the story. And I figure I might as well get it out now, because you never know when it's going to be too late.

Lance: Absolutely. Now, of course, some people attach names to these unknowns. And I have read some accounts that these are some kind of Anunnaki/Atlantean lines, and then of course you have some kind of illuminati bloodlines flowing in there. But nobody really seems to know who they are, except that they're not -

Jay: Well, yeah, actually, we do. Yeah, well, they are the - Anunnaki is one of the words that they have. The Nephilim is another that they have.

These are words created by different cultures - the Hebrews, the Babylonians, the Sumerians, the Persians - to describe these people. OK? But their real name is very easy, because it describes where they go when they get out of Dodge. They're called the Aryans.

"Aryans" is just another word for "Martians", because Aries is Mars. They escape - at the end of the last Kali Yuga - I think, at the end of every Kali Yuga - the same cycle occurs every time; it may even be why there is a Kali Yuga.

They come to Earth after the Earth is healed from the gigantic coronal-mass ejections which occur; and they come back in their ships, and they repopulate the Earth. They may even take genetic strains with them, which is what the genome project is; they may take all the seeds with them, which is what the seed project is.

And they take it there; and they bury themselves under, because Mars is a pretty inhospitable place; and they wait for the Earth to recover. And they came back 60, 000 years ago, and they thought that the Earth had pretty much been wiped out. But a few groups had survived.

Native Americans had survived, by being in caves; and they tell those stories, about how hot - it was so hot that you stuck a stick out the cave opening and it lit on fire. The Chinese survived - somebody - one of those Asian groups must have survived, obviously. And some of the African survived.

So, when the Aryans landed, they kept to themselves. But they did have ships, and they went around; and they had an order that they couldn't have any sex with the remnants that were left behind. They could help them, teach them how to read and write and how to farm and all these other things; but they couldn't have sex with them.

But those Earth women and the way they move: they just couldn't resist.

So these are humans, but they went to Mars for a long time; and they lost the pigment in their skin, they lost the color in their hair, their eyes turned blue or green or hazel. They were tremendously big, because of the low gravity on Mars, when they landed here. Very advanced, super advanced - and they've been here for a very, very long time.

And they're leaving. They're going. They're leaving now. There are colonies - I know this sounds completely out of my mind, but I have proof for all this. There's colonies up on Mars; just type in "Hale Crater civilization" on Google, and read Skipper's work - Joseph Skipper's great work on the colony there, up in Hale Crater.

This is what's going on. This is the long and short of it. And, yeah, they live here; they actually lived once in Norway. That's where they lived, because they liked the coolness; they couldn't get used to the heat. And that spiral that exploded over Norway when Barack Obama was going to get his Peace Prize in Norway - yeah, well, that's their weaponry.

Here's the problem Obama faces. OK? These guys are leaving. They're getting out of here because they think that the coronal-mass ejections are coming. Alright? They're leaving, and they don't care who runs the United States anymore. They did up until last year. Now they don't care anymore.

And so Obama's7 sitting here, and he's got the remnants of their technology. He's got the stuff sitting around; right? And they're probably busily back-engineering the Aryan technologies; OK? And this is what's going on in Argentina and Chile, where they're raiding the tunnel systems.

This is the new world order; these are the managers that have been left behind. The new world order is not the Aryans; the new world order are the Aryans' left-behind managers.

Lance: Right; that would make sense.

Jay: Yeah. The Aryans think of themselves as the 'People of the Red', or 'the People from the Red Planet'. And, when Bauer changed his name to "Rothschild", which means "red shield", he was really signifying that he was the shield for this thing, this project, which moved into high gear at the beginning of the industrial age. And everyone's thinking that they're deforesting the planet, raping the mountainsides, enslaving people, doing all this stuff, just because there's something that has gone out of control; but it isn't.

It's all the underpinnings of a huge, secret project to develop, quickly, colonies and ships and moving gigantic amounts of goods and services across the gap between here and Mars.

And that's the truth right there.

And a lot of people are going to know this pretty soon; I'm not the only one that knows what's going on here. This is all written down, by the way, in ancient texts from India, all of this.

Lance: Oh yes, that's right. You briefly touched upon that the last time, I think.

Jay: Yes, this is all ancient texts, and these texts were from the Aryans and they told their story.

Lance: If they had the ability to go back and forth to Mars and further, I'm sure, isn't coronal mass ejection going to destroy Mars as well?

Jay: No, because they're going underground. First off, it will hit Mars but it won't be anything like what happens here.

Secondly, the problem with the coronal mass ejection - which I have to say, the film "2012" did a pretty good job of evoking - is that it is a huge electromagnetic blast which has a commensurate effect on the core of the Earth, which is heavily electromagnetic. So it causes a core flip.

OK, here's how it works. The poles of the sun rotate every 37 days. The equator of the sun would also rotate every 37 days, except that the angular momentum of the planets at the equator of the Solar System causes it to slow down, so it only rotates every 26 days, instead of 37.

Every 87 days, there is a crossing over of the magnetic field, as the 26 catches up to the 37 again. You follow me?

Every 87 days, there's a small electromagnetic crossing, which encases the sun in a tightly woven electromagnetic shell. After about 12-13, 000 years of this nonsense, the entire sun is bound in a huge receding-quickly magnetic field, which has a commensurate effect on the Earth's electromagnetic field, which also begins receding.

This is all happening right now with the loss of the sun spots and the Earth's magnetic field receding. It's a 13, 000 year cycle that we are right on the edge of and when the sun finally has to right itself, i.e., move its rotational fields back into sync again, which it has to do, there will be a huge electromagnetic storm which will go out way beyond the Earth.

It will be carrying with it gigantic coronal mass ejections, which will ignite the forests of the Earth and boil the oceans.

If you're underground, on Mars, well you have a pretty good chance of making it. There's no electromagnetic fields on Mars. There's no tectonic plates. Nothing's going to be spinning around and you just wait it out.

You just wait it out and maybe after a few hundred years, I don't know how long, when the forests grow back and the animal life comes back, then you mount your expeditions and you go back.

So we're building not only the expeditions that are going there, but we've been building for the last three hundred years the expeditions that are going to take them back here, too. Yeah, that's what's going on.

It recurs all the time. The Vedic texts and the Mahabharata, this is what they're discussing, including the gigantic ships, or arks, as they call them.

I want to make one thing clear. I'm not saying white people are Aryans. I'm saying that white people are the bastard children of Aryans and Earth people. You understand? They do not look like us at all. They're chalk-white. They're freakish-looking.

They're where the vampire myths come from because they can only come to the surface of the Earth at night. Their skin is so translucent that you can see the capillary system, so they look blue in certain kinds of light.

Lance: You know, there was a movie that was a remake of "War of the Worlds" and I thought to myself, "Well isn't this strange, for them to make this kind of movie where they're already underground, and those laser beams." Very prescient.

Jay: Spielberg has to know. When I saw that, I just went, "My God, he has to know." He has to know that they've been here the whole time and they are underground. That's exactly where they are.

And by the way, these other things that we see - and I'm not saying there are not other aliens, there could be; I'm not even going to argue that - but some of the other things that we've been seeing are their robotic creations.

They've been here, these robotic creations, for a long time. I don't know if they're robotic or genetic, I can't tell. Sometimes they're robotic, sometimes they're genetic.

Here's the thing Obama has to ask himself. He knows that these guys are leaving. He knows there's a disaster coming of some kind. They shoot a hyper-dimensional weapon over Norway while he's picking up the Peace prize and everybody's screaming and yelling, "Why does Obama get the Peace Prize, he hasn't done a damn thing."

I'm going to tell you why Obama gets the Peace Prize. He gets the Peace Prize if he doesn't shoot at them while they're leaving. Here's the problem that he faces, though, and this is a serious problem.

You're the Aryans and you're back on Mars waiting for the coronal mass ejection. You got the hatches buttoned down, everything, right? What is to prevent the elites that you've left behind from back-engineering the craft, that you've left behind - the ship - and coming after you and stealing your place? I know that sounds crazy -

Lance: No, to me it doesn't.

Jay: - and I'll tell you what. He's worried that they're going to attack us, and that's what that thing in Norway was about. These people are saying that these are benevolent aliens and stuff. You haven't read your history. The Aryans stormed down, they enslaved all of India, they created the caste system.

Lance: Every war has been created indirectly by this influence, hasn't it?

Jay: Absolutely. If you read Andrew Collins' book "From the Ashes of Angels," it's a great book. He talks about the history of these babies, these magical babies that are born after the Aryans and Earth women have had sex.. These babies are white and they have white hair and chalk-white skin, and some tribes were fearful of these children and they killed them.

But other tribes thought that these children were exalted beings and they raised them up into exaltedness in the tribe. These beings frequently had red hair; red hair because of the overabundance of iron oxide in the air on Mars causing red hair.

So they exalted these beings and these were the European tribes who exalted these beings. Read his books, they're very interesting.

Lance: I will, I'll check that out for sure.

Jay: On the other hand Africans have a history of killing albino children right when they're born. I don't know if you know that. They're considered wicked.

They think that these children, the offspring of the Aryans, were wicked or there was something bad about them. This is a long tradition where they would get rid of these angel-demon children.

So the Aryan influences are more prevalent among the European-stock cultures and so they became the vehicles of the real Aryans, which have nothing to do with white people at all, actually, except for leaving behind some genetic trace..

And so that's what's been going on. Skull and Bones is part of this group. Michael Tsarian has traced a lot of these German groups back. The German groups are the key. Once you start back engineering the German groups, you can find everything.

The Saturnian Society, Aleister Crowley, all of the UFO stuff from South America. All this stuff is all intertwined into a cohesive story that makes total sense and gets rid of a lot of the gobbledygook.

But it's backed up and bolstered by very, very serious ancient texts, Purana texts and Vedic texts, which tell the whole story very clearly.

Lance: Huh! Well, how does that tie into the idea that there are different ages? In other words, do we ever get out from under the prison bars of some kind of highly advanced extraterrestrial civilization that controls us without our knowing? Isn't there supposed to be a Golden Age after the Iron Age?

Jay: Well, it is, and here's the thing. This is really the crux of the matter. What happens is is that through the long cycle of the Yugas, which is really called a Kulpa - which is all of the cycles together - there are so many deaths.

And as you approach the Bronze Age and the Kali Yuga, there are more and more deaths of violent nature.

And it takes thousands and thousands of years for bones to completely vanish. The Earth becomes haunted by an inescapable presence - called the 'Ka' in Egypt, which is a residual that's left behind. And the only way that you can have a Golden Age is for all of the Ka to be burned away so that the Earth is completely renewed.

And unfortunately these guys, these Aryans, broke the rules. They didn't want to die in the last catastrophe, which they had to do. That was part of the deal. The Earth can only be renewed if all of the Ka goes. And they escaped, and they went away.

And they kept all of the knowledge that had been gathered from the previous Kulpa, which we were also supposed to lose.

The only way for the Golden Age to actually incarnate is for the earth start out in a pristine state again. And they broke the rules.

And this is why Tsarion's work is so good because these guys broke the rules, and now we're just their slaves. Now racism has come into it. Whereas before there was no racism. Now there's racism. The Aryans think that the Earth peoples are too stupid, that the Earth peoples are too dumb.

And it's not dumb or stupid. They never had the advanced technology carried over from the Dark Age. . And this is the problem. So there has to be a cleansing of the earth so that it can be renewed. And they're not allowing that to happen.

And they keep bringing back the same genetic strains over and over when actually the Earth is constantly rolling the dice and searching for new genetic strains that it can use to embrace consciousness. The Aryans keep bringing back all the old genetic structures. Did you know that corn is a hybrid?

Lance: Yeah.

Jay: Corn is a hybrid. When they discovered corn, even to this day, it is a hybrid. Somebody had to have messed with it a long time ago.

Lance: Now it's all genetically modified.

Jay: Well, it is. And again you have to ask yourself why that's being allowed and why all the forests are being cut down and why...

Lance: Well, when what are the chemtrails and HARP?

Jay: Yeah. Those are to keep us away from seeing what is going on behind our backs, which is a giant evacuation. And they don't care about us anymore.

Lance: Wow! It seems like there ought to be some kind of higher authority that - let's just call it The Cosmic Patrol - that oversees what's fair and what's not fair. In other words, aren't there some kinds of higher more advanced ETs or civilizations or angelic realms or whatever that can put things straight?

Jay: We know as much as we know, and that's all we know. The Vedic texts say that the divas, which have been destroyed through this current Kali Yuga according to the text, have gone back to the Godhead.

They left thousands of years ago to travel back to the Godhead to tell the Godhead that the evil Archons, who are the Aryans, by the way, have taken over the entire planet and that they needed help because the divas have been driven off the planet. The divas, of course, are the nature spirits.

And as Tolkien shows us very clearly in the Lord of the Rings, Sauron and Sauraman are destroying nature to fuel and finance some mysterious project. And if you go back and look and see in history who Sauron is, it's obvious that Tolkien talking about Sargon. Sargon was the first real king of the Kali Yuga in Mesopotamia.

He started calendars. He started clocks. He started the workday. He started everything, and he was an Aryan. And so you can see that there's this regimented thing that starts entering in and removes us from the natural state of a highly advanced hunter/gatherer, which is really what human beings are.

And that's our natural state - very close to the Earth, no agriculture, all fresh foods, a lot of hunting, and a lot of gathering. Very spiritual though. Not a grunting life, but a wonderful beautiful life filled with meditation and a much higher standard of living, which was what was going on before the Aryans emerged.

An interview with Jay Weidner

Lance: Wow! Now is there any connection between the Aryans and then the German Aryans that were involved with one of the World Wars?

Jay: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, all of the German Nazis were obsessed with the lore of a people that lived under the earth. And Hitler even told people that he had met the new man, i.e. the Aryan, that "He is terrible," he said. And this is where they received all of their technology, the Bell technology, which is the spinning mercury which powered the UFOs. They received all of that stuff from the Aryans. They had contacted them and told them what to do, where to go. And that's how the Nazis from 1930 to 1945 did the most astonishing advances ever in human history. They invented the laser, the UFOs. They invented radar, television. So many things that it's ridiculous. No group of people could ever do that, but they did it. And by the way, this was all being financed by the Rothschild and the Rockefellers including George Bush's grandfather.

Lance: That's right. That's right.

Jay: That's right, and it's all coming out of Skull and Bones. And Skull and Bones has a number - a secret number that no one knows what it means - and the number is 322. Yeah, well, 322 - it's quite obvious. It's the first day of Aries. Aries is Mars. Mars is March. March is the only month that's named after a planet, and all alchemy begins in Aries.

Lance: Wow.

Jay: So these are the alchemists, these are the high magicians. These are the Great White Brotherhood.. According to the Tibetans they lived in an underground city named Shambala underneath the Himalayas, and they are chalk white..

Lance: And then of course we know - this is common knowledge - that we brought over all the Nazi scientists up through operation Paperclip.

Jay: We certainly did.

Lance: ... Paperclip and installed them in high positions, including I think the top of NASA.

Jay: Well absolutely they did, and Werner Van Braun told Carol Rosin, his paramour, right near his death he said "You'll see; you'll see: in the end, they'll say all of this was caused by the aliens", and he started laughing.

Lance: Wow.

Jay: And listen, though: there's more than just that. It's been pretty much proven, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the entire bottom third of South America was given over to the Nazis at the end of World War II. And that was their country; and they owned both sides, Chile and Argentina. And they ran - and Pinochet was their puppet, and so was Peron. And, if you ever got close to anything that they were doing in the mountains, you were 'disappeared'. In Argentina, thousands and thousands of people were 'disappeared'. Hikers would get near these Nazi facilities where they were building these huge craft, and they would disappear. And, if you look at Jacques Vallee's work on U.F.O. sightings and where they are and how many there have been and all of that - he did copious work for 30 years - you'll find that 75 percent of U.F.O. sightings are in the bottom third of South America. You can type in "Santiago, Chile, December 2008" and watch the YouTube video of about 40 craft flying over Santiago. I think you can almost see them waving out the windows: "See you later, suckers!"

Lance: Wow. Well, what in the heck are we going to do about all this? What can be done?

Jay: Well, you know, here's the thing: we don't know. And I'm not saying there is going to be this thing, because these people could be as wacky as they come. I think actually their numbers are - here's the thing. Their original number was 2442; that was when they said that the end of the Kali Yuga was coming, according to these ancient texts. And I think that they found out, by deciphering the long-count calendar in the late 1880s, that there may be a chance that it isn't 2442 but it's 2012. And so they hit the pedal to the metal and created the 20th century and got out of Dodge and they're up there, but there may still be 400 years left.

Lance: Oh.

Jay: Yeah. I mean their number system definitely says "2442". And it's a big mystery that we're all trying to uncover and figure out. The entire number system that these people use - have been using since they arrived here - is a higher-dimensional, or hyper-dimensional, number system. There are many places on Earth that use their numerical system, this hyper-dimensional numerical system; but the three places on Earth that have it the most are Giza - the Great Pyramid of Giza - Stonehenge, and the U.S. Capitol.  I'm talking about knowledge that no-one knows about, that would have been almost - one would think - nearly impossible for the guys that built the U.S. Capitol to know, yet they did.

Lance: Dan Brown just came out with another one of his thrillers about the U.S. Capitol.

Jay: Yeah. Well, when "The Sacred Geometry of Time" comes out, by Robert Lawlor, it'll put Dan Brown and the rest of them right in their place.

Lance: Well, of course; they're thriller writers, not esoteric scholars by any means.

Jay: No; Dan Brown's an apologist for the Freemasons. His books are all an apology for the Freemasons. Ronnie Howard, who made "Angels and Demons" and the other book, "The Da Vinci Code", based on his book - he is a also a top Freemason. And so they have their agenda, and their agenda is to get out of Dodge and leave us all here; and that's the truth of it. A lot of people are doing things. Patrick Geryls going to someplace in Africa where there are deep caves. I'm heading to Peru. There are people that are doing things. There are things you can do.

Lance: What about building a boat?

Jay: Well, it will work. The problem - if you can get past that initial coronal-mass ejection and the resultant tidal waves and expected 400-mile-an-hour winds. You know, my buddy Clif High is building a boat; I know that, and it's a pretty cool boat. I'm thinking about buying one just in case.

Lance: I just read his article on that. My jaw dropped. It was almost like reading your articles. It was chock full of hidden meaning and - at least that's what I got out of it. You can take it on a literal level, of course. But there's a lot more there than meets the eye, I think.

Jay: Yeah.

Lance: And he's going to be coming back on the show soon, I hope.

Jay: Well, there's a strange thing going on. But there's a certain percentage of people that get it and they really don't even need to discuss it anymore. If you don't see it, that's your problem. We're taking care of business.

Lance: Right.

Jay: He's building a boat; I'm heading to South America.

Lance: I'm probably going to stay right here. I have no desire to - for whatever reason, I've been stationed here. And so -

Jay: There's not a whole lot you can do.

Lance: There really isn't.

Jay: It's a matter of luck, even in a boat.

Lance: Yeah; yeah. And, with my resources, I wouldn't get further than leaving California, probably. But I do know the military's building underground bases as fast as you can flip pancakes, at IHOP.

Jay: They certainly are.

Lance: So they're just scurrying around; but that's not going to help any either.

Jay: Well, I think that the air would get sucked out of them, and then you've got the crust moving around - I don't know. I wouldn't think it's a good idea.

Lance: I wouldn't - it doesn't appeal to me.

Jay: I'm actually glad the Aryans are leaving, and I hope we get a 400-year reprieve - it may be longer. I think they've been a terrible influence on the planet, and they've left a wrecked planet behind.

Lance: Terrible.

Jay: And we've got to pick their mess up. So I don't really appreciate - and I hope we do take a few potshots at them as they're scooting out of dodge, frankly. Obama's got a terrible mess to handle. I don't pity a politician; but, at the same time, boy, I tell you, I wouldn't want to be in his position ow.

Lance: Well, there's been a lot of talk about disclosure happening very soon, that's supposed to happen on the television, that fits the timing and schedule and everything.

Jay: Yeah. I'll tell you when disclosure happens: it happens just about the last hour. That's the disclosure. And David Wilcocks going out of his way to say there's going to be a disclosure and he thinks that there's going to be these aliens landing and everything - I'm sorry, I love David, he's a great guy; but, no, it isn't going to happen. The Disclosure is that they're leaving. And the people in the know, and people like Clif High, and a lot of other people who already know all this - they know what's going on. You can look at it on the Web. You can see it through Ed Grimsley's glasses, going through the night sky. We know what's going on. Gary McKinnon is being extradited to the U.S. for cracking in to the Pentagon's network. He says there's a secret space program with gigantic ships and hundreds of thousands of personnel. Probably most of the missing people of the last 30 or 40 years.

Lance: Would you mention your websites again?

Jay: Yeah. www.sacredmysteries.com has all my videos, including the new "Infinity: The Ultimate Trip", and "Journey beyond Death", my new film. And www.jayweidner.com has all my high-weirdness articles. So just go there, or just type in "Jay Weidner" on Google, and look at all the nice things that people say, and the nasty things that people say about me.

Lance: Ah, I can't believe that anybody would say anything nasty about you, Jay. You're a terrific guy, and I love having you on the show, and you'll have to come back again soon; OK?

Jay: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Lance: Alright. And be sure and go check out his articles and his website, because, I'm telling you, it's mind-blowing. Alright; thanks a lot, Jay. And good night, everybody.

Disclosure: Aryans, Mars
and the End of Days
An interview with Jay Weidner

Lance White: Greetings, everyone, and welcome to A Fireside Chat with Zany Mystic. I'm your host, Lance White. Tonight, I'm delighted to welcome Jay Weidner, who returns to the show.

Called by Wired Magazine "an authority on the hermetic and alchemical traditions," and "erudite conspiracy hunter," Jay Weidner is a renowned author, filmmaker, and hermetic scholar. He is considered to be a modern-day Indiana Jones for his on-going, world-wide quests to find clues to mankind's spiritual destiny via ancient societies and artifacts.

His body of work offers great insight into the circumstances that have led to the current global crisis. He is the producer of the documentary films, "2012 The Odyssey," it's sequel, "Timewave 2013."

He's the director of the forthcoming feature documentary, "Infinity: The Ultimate Trip." He is currently in the completion stage of this feature documentary on death and the afterlife.

It features numerous authors, such as Dannion Brinkley, Dr. Alberto Villoldo, Neale Donald Walsch and many other spiritual luminaries. Let's have a fireside chat with Jay right now.

Hi, Jay. Welcome back.

I was reading the article section on your site today. I want to mention your site, www.jayweidner.com, now, in case people want to go there. On the articles page, there's some new information that I hadn't noticed before.

It was like my jaw dropped onto the desk when I read the first few articles, especially the ones about Stanley Kubrick. Can we start with the article on Stanley Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey" and some of the amazing synchronicities that are occurring there?

Jay: The whole entire Stanley Kubrick odyssey - not just "2001," but the entire work of Stanley Kubrick - has to be understood by stepping back.

Step back as far away as you can and take a wide look at it. Stanley is obsessed with time. His third film, "The Killing " is intercut between many different times. This is 1956, way before "Momento" or any of these modern films.

When he moves forward to "Dr. Strangelove," again he is inter-cutting, not between different times, but in the same time. Time is different, even though it's at the same time.

When you're on the bomber, time is moving fast, but when you're at the President's conference in the War Room, time is moving very slow. When you're trying to get the code from General Jack Ripper, time is moving slower than erosion. Jack isn't going to tell you the recall code.

"2001" is doing the old m.f. with time too. We cut in 1/24th of a second between his thrown bone and a spaceship years later. Also we don't really know what time it is on Earth when the Star Child returns at the end of the film.

When you read my article "Alchemical Kubrick, Part I: 2001, the Great Work on Film, " you'll see there is a conscious thing that Stanley Kubrick is doing. He's designing the film to be an initiation.

When you blend together the other two articles that have about Kubrick in them and what I have now discovered about the films of Stanley Kubrick, an eye-opening expose is at hand. I'm intending to get the expose out here soon.

Stanley Kubrick cut a deal, I believe, with the US government to fake the Moon landings. I'm not saying they didn't go to the moon, they did go to the Moon. They went to the Moon, they brought back Moon rocks, they put reflectors on the Moon, they did all sorts of stuff.

Believe me, they've been on the Moon a lot of times, but they didn't go the way we were shown in the Moon landings, which were faked by Kubrick. In exchange, Kubrick cut a deal where he would be able to do the kinds of movies he wanted to do.

The first of these movies was "2001: A Space Odyssey," of course. He embedded tons of alchemical and esoteric information into the symbols and the script. You can also use "2001" as a springboard to understanding a bigger story that Stanley is telling, which is unveiled very secretly through the rest of his films.

Kubrick's bigger story is that this world is ruled by a group of people who are very advanced. Apparently, they have a secret space program, which they're hiding from us. They do not really time-travel, but they have a curious relationship to linear time. They appear to be able to move in and out of it.

This is all according to the films of Kubrick, not my opinion. These people are into deep and dark sexual practices. I'll try to be as nice about it as I can. The films, especially the films that follow "2001," are a long expose of a dark, sex-magic cult that rules the world.

It's all done very subliminally. It's a treasure trove that, like a zip file that keeps pouring out when you open it. At this point, I don't even know how to piece it all together because the amount of information coming out is so astonishing.

Lance: Well, it's hidden right there in front of us. I would say his movie "Eyes Wide Shut" is probably the closest to actually coming out and exposing the sexual side of life as a fictional movie, except that he's most likely playing it down quite a bit.

You mentioned in your article that there were some scenes cut out of it. It is unfortunate that the producers didn't really want to get out there.

Jay: There are incredible continuity breaks at certain points in "Eyes Wide Shut," which are impossible for a man of Stanley Kubrick's discipline to have allowed. I can't really tell you what happened in between these continuity errors, but there is something cut out. That happens several times in the movie.

From those continuity error breaks we can tell that something has changed. It's not left the way Stanley would have wanted it, but I can't go beyond that because Warner Brothers won't release the director's cut, the final cut by Kubrick, which I think he deserves. I mean, my goodness, it's his last film.

They release Ridley Scott's director cuts; they releas Steven Spielberg's director cuts. Why can't they release the director's cut of "Eyes Wide Shut"? But they're not, and we can't hope for that anymore.

But, yeah, I would say that there's a deep and dark undertone to "Eyes Wide Shut" which no-one - well, there's one guy on the Web, an alchemist, who has touched on it. But it's quite an astonishing group of films; and one day I will write either my film or my book about this whole thing and get it all down in some sort of order.

But I tell you it is such a trip to sit in front of my big-screen TV with Blu-ray Stanley Kubrick films and step through them slowly and discover one marvel after another.

Lance: Well, I'm going to have to go back and watch them, because you astutely wrote that you didn't take a shining right away to his movie "The Shining" and I'm with you on that one.

For some - for whatever reason, I never - it was over - it went over my head; I took it on a very literal basis. But, when you explain the synchronicities and what's really going on there, it just makes me feel like an idiot that I - of course, you don't know until you know. And, you know -

Jay: No, the secret stays secret until it reveals itself. You know, it's like Schopenhauer said: when you say something unusual, everyone discounts it; then, the second time they hear it, they just shrug their heads and ignore it; then, the third time, they act like, you know, everybody knew it all along.

And I think that's what you're going to find with Kubrick in ten years. I'll be long forgotten, and it'll just become common knowledge. There'll probably be films made about him as an alchemist and all sorts of things that will happen here over the next ten, fifteen years, I predict.

Just as I predicted - by the way, I believe I've only been on your show once; right?

Lance: Correct.

Jay: Yeah. And I believe the last time I was on your show was in April 2008.

Lance: That sounds right.

Jay: Yeah. And, if you listen to that show, which somebody has put on the Internet - I don't know who - up on YouTube. Somebody wrote to me today about it. Apparently, in that show, I predicted the economic downfall of the fall of 2008. I'll have to listen to it, because I can't remember.

But, so, it's not hard, when you make a study of things, to predict; it doesn't take psychic ability. And I predicted a lot of things that are coming down the pike, and they have nothing to do with me being a fortune-teller.

I'm just a guy who reads a lot and then extrapolates forward. And maybe I have a psychic abilitywhich aids me that I'm unaware of, but it certainly doesn't help me with my investments or anything else.

Lance: Well, I'm with you on that one. Like I said, I listen to my guests, and sometimes I'll hear something later that I didn't hear the first time.

Again, it seems to depend on how awake I am in that moment, and it seems to change from day to day. So I try to put on my memory cap every day, so I don't forget everything I've remembered up to that point; but it doesn't always work, and sometimes I forget to put it on.

Jay: Yeah. Well, we all have our fading moments, as the world gets crazier and crazier.

Lance: Well, yes. Now, to what do you attribute that? You mentioned now, also, we could go into the numerous processes that you've studied, from ancient artifacts, from the Egyptian pyramids, to the Cross at Hendaye, to the Hindu artifacts and Mayan - I mean it goes on and on and on.

And, according to the Mayan calendar, we have just entered into the sixth night; so we're getting close to wrapping up these tick-tocks that they claim are the nine levels of consciousness that are supposed to be arriving soon.

Jay: Yes, I'm - yes. It's unscrewing itself. What's really going on is that there is a hardening of time. Time is a vortex, and we're moving down towards the tip. We're slowly cycling our way down towards the tip of this vortex.

And, as we cycle down, the concentric circles grow tighter and faster; so each circle around is faster, but also closer to the last one - and a reflection.

As the circle above and the circle below in the spiral are very similar to each other, they are mirrors; so you - whereas it would take 20 years, 25 years, to go from World War I to World War II, it only took a few years to go from Vietnam to the Gulf War, and now we're seeing two wars that are right next to each other.

So we're fighting a two-front war that started within a year of each other.

And, at this point, we'll start seeing reflections of this densification of time happening as we approach the tip. And, like the tip of a tornado - which is as hard as a diamond, even though it's only spinning air - when you have spinning time, it also is hard as whatever a diamond is in the fourth dimension, which is what time is.

And that's when things get really weird, because, at that point, the circles near the tip begin crossing themselves; and, when they begin crossing themselves, which is really what hardens up time, then you can go forward and backwards.

But what's really going on with this Mayan thing is that, as you approach the funnel, the bottom funnel of the time vortex, there are back waves.

Like in physics, when waves hit a wall and they come back and they're underneath the advancing wave, there are backwaves, which strike the membrane of time, the cone, the vortex cone, the tetrahedral -

If you take a tetrahedron and you look at it, you can see that it's like a squared-off tornado. And so we're approaching now very quickly this point and all of our reaction times are shortened, and so a mistake is sure to be made.

In fact, what's going on actually is - they're making a mistake a day or so, right now. Almost every day, they're passing another law which is just going to make everything much worse when we hit that eye at the very, very end of this trip down the vortex.

And then we're going to hit the eye, and then there will be no time. And that's what we mean by "the end of time".

Lance: Well, now, that brings up a few questions. At least the government and the shadow government - the one that you talked about, that has the second space program - they're fully aware of all this, aren't they?

Jay: They are.

Lance: But it seems that they're doing everything they can to halt this process, or at least to keep us from entering into it. But that seems like an inevitable process for it, as far as what you're describing.

Jay: Well, it is, because the actions of them are not easy to understand, and so we must realize that there is something afoot with them that doesn't make sense in the human realm.

Now, what I'm about to say - are we going to a break or anything?

Lance: No.

The Long Emergency

Part Four

With

James Howard Kunstler

Jay Weidner: If you are interested in our video collection go to www.sacredmysteries.com and check them out. We have DVD’s by people like Terence McKenna, Nicki Scully, Sharron Rose, Pedram Shojai, Gregg Braden, Neale Donald Walsch and others. Also go to my own website www.jayweidner.com to read my articles etc.

We are here with James Howard Kunstler. James, you were telling us about your book, "World Made By Hand, " did you ever get anyone to option that from Hollywood?

James:  Actually, I am having discussions with people.

Jay:  Yeah, I would think that it be a good choice. You could bring that in for a few hundred thousand.

James:  If you are ripping yarn full of interesting incidents; there ain't nothing wrong with it.

Jay:  No. So what's your new book?

James:  It's a sequel to "World Made By Hand".

Jay:  Oh, good.

James:  "World Made By Hand" took place in the early summer of the year, in question, in the future, and the sequel takes place around Halloween time; around now actually. The characters in the first book have moved into the background, and the characters, who were in the background in the first book, have now moved into the foreground. The new one is about the 11?year?old son of the town doctor. And he commits a crime and has to run away from home and is at large in the county, throughout the course of the book, and falls in the company of a young psychopathic bandit and killer. So the book is all about what happens to him in this situation.

Jay:  Sounds pretty good. I think there is going to be a lot of those guys around, don't you?

James:  Well, I don't if there will be lots of them. They already are. I mean there are plenty...we don't have shortage of people who misbehave in this land.

Jay:  Has crime gone up where you live in the last year?

James:  Well, I live in a pretty quiet corner of North America. I live in sort of a main street, a classic main street, small town in upstate New York. I don't know that crime has really gotten that much worse around here. But, you do see what used to be the lower middle class of people here really struggling much, much more than they were a year ago or several years ago. They just cannot make it. They can't feed their families, and they are barely keeping roof over their heads and paying their bills, and its very, very hard for them.

I am rather gloomy about the trajectory of all this. I think that we are going to get into a lot of political and social trouble and it's not going to be necessarily an orderly situation out there.

Jay:  Well, on [account of the fourth] turning, it could be even the possibility of some kind of insurrection or revolution or possibly even a breaking up of the country and the regions.

James:  Well, these things happen. I mean, I said as much in own book that its not written in stone that the U.S. is going to remain exactly the way we know it. In fact, we may fall into more regional governance as we start to get trouble with transportation and the transmission of goods. And I think that that's a very good possibility. I mean that's not going to happen overnight, I don't think. But it's definitely out there. It's possible.

Jay:  I worry about this a lot. I used to live in Los Angeles and in Seattle, and I'm sort of right in between right now. In that the middle of the west coast and I wonder about the inner city populations. And the loss of jobs that's going on everywhere right now especially, in the bottom 20% of the population. I don't hear a whole a lot about troubles in the inner city or anything and I'm wondering what you think is going to happen in those places?

James:  I think it's kind of weird the way these things fade in and out of our consciousness. And in and out of the headlines over the decades you know. There's been very little racial friction or grieving acting out of grievances in the last you know five years or so. I guess the Rodney King riots are the last.

Jay:  Yeah that was a long time ago.

James:  The last instances that.

Jay:  That was 14 years ago.

James:  well we go in and out of these periods where that happens. And we been out of it for awhile and I mean I don't think there's any question in that the poor people of color in cities are getting hit very hard. By the banking fiasco and the economic down turn that it leads to. And I know I think there's probably a lot of stuff that been going on there. And it's a matter of time before that stuff really expresses itself more vividly more then it has.

Jay:  So we could be on a danger of a kind of a LA riots situation?

James:  I don't want to go provoking anything or I don't want to sound like I'm promoting the idea.

Jay:  No.

James:  That it would be a good thing. I guess I'm saying that these things go in and out of the American experience. And we been in an out phase for a quite a while and its liable to come back in. There are just a lot of there are a lot of persistence in harents tensions in American life and they haven't gone away.

Jay:  And there not going away.

James:  One of the things that are happening is that you're seeing a certain amount of racial amnesty directed at the president. Because of who he is and it seems to me that could become more troublesome. But it's really the first expression you know it's the first expression of the grievances of poor white people. In a long time really since you know when I was young during the social justice era of the early 1960'some when you know we saw clash between the old southern status quo and the civil rites movement. And that was sort of the last time we saw a really emphatic white grievances movement. And it's starting to kind of gear up again and it's not a pretty thing when it happens.

Jay:  Oh no! And the thing is again its there's a trend towards centralization like with the healthcare. But to some people it looks kind of silly to be trying to create anything more then we don't have anything to pay for what we have.

James:  Well the whole thing is a very, very disturbing on many counts. I mean it's disturbing.

Jay:  Yeah.

James:  it's disturbing that the medical system is as screwed up as it is. And unjust and chaotic as it is and at the same time it's very unfortunate that we don't seem to have the money to really pay to improve it. So I have no idea where we go from there.

Jay:  I don't either. Then there's the simple mathematical problem. By their own account, they're going to add 50 ? I think more like 70 ? million people to the rolls. And that's all fine and dandy, but we're going to need 2?5 million doctors. And where are they going to come from? I don't know.

James:  I'm not a big believer in doing statistical analysis from extrapolation. I think we're going to see too many other things change in the meantime.

Jay:  I agree. I think all of this speculation is meaningless because the future is going to be so much weirder and different than we've thought and imagined it. We should just begin to live more simply, and then we can just surf with whatever happens as this thing cranks up.

James:  Well I do think that circumstances are going to compel us to live differently, whether we like it or not.

Jay:  It's already happening; it's just not happening that fast. It's interesting because in Los Angeles, if you drive to the Mexican neighborhoods, all the front yards are gardens, and all their backyards have chickens in them. And then, you drive to the other neighborhoods and the suburbs, and it's all lawns and everything. You just wonder when people are going to wise up that they have to start taking care of business. And those Mexicans are doing it, and everybody else is just falling behind. I think we need to take that kind of attitude all around. And I think you're right; I think the laws themselves are going to change. In our little small town, you can't have chickens and wildlife yet. But I have a feeling as this thing advances, they're going to start allowing people to have things in their yards that are not allowed now, because it'll be turned into more like a small town from the '30s, I think. Actually it could even go back to Thomas Hardy, couldn't it?

James:  Well it's possible, yeah. In my two fictional books, my two novels, about life in the future, one of the characters has, more or less, become a feudal lord in a little corner of the county. And I think that there will actually be quite a few people who feel that they're in a position where they have to trade their allegiance for security.

Jay:  I think you're right, and I remember that character. I think it's going to be moving in a lot of ways to some sort of new feudalism, and people may want the protection of the local wealthy guy because there could be roving bands. Who knows what's going to happen?

James:  Or even food security, just to have a meal everyday.

Jay:  Yes, I think you're right. I think what we have to do is...well we have to go is what we have to do. But I think what we have to do is just get as much of this information out as possible. Take a deep breath. Nothing's going wrong yet. And we'll be all right.

James:  Well I'm not really a 'gloom?and?doomer'. I have a lot of faith in human resilience, but I do think that the times will soon require us to think. And it always happens in human history and this is nothing new.

The Long Emergency

Part Three.

With

James Howard Kunstler

Jay Weidner: I'm Jay Weidner. Check out all of our great DVD’s at www.sacredmysteries.com. We have DVD’s on alchemy, sound yoga, sound healing and other subjects. We feature artists like Jonathan Goldman, Gregg Braden, neale Donald Walsch, Alberto Villoldo, Terence McKenna. Also check out my own web site at www.jayweidner.com and read all the high weirdness to be found there.

We're talking to James Howard Kunstler. The great writer, researcher, and journalist, who has brought us a lot of prescient facts over the last few years. And I'd like to hear what he says about what's about to happen. I'm sure you get this a lot, what do you think people should do? I mean at this point with the number of pressures and catastrophes just over the horizon? I mean, what can somebody do?

James:  Well, there's an awful lot for them to think about. You know, my opinion is it's very important to get out of debt. It's very important to consider where you're living and whether you're going to be able to continue living in that place. Basically whether your region has a future or not. And it's very important to think about what your vocation is, whether you can do something that will be useful to other people that will allow you incidentally to make a living.

Jay:  Well that's good advice. So we're going to decentralize? People are going to be moving out into the country I guess? And even more?

James:  No, I don't think that it's going to be quite like that.

Jay:  No?

James:  In fact I think we will see demographic shifts, but that they will be rather surprising. There's an assumption by a lot of people I talk to that if the suburbs get into trouble, then therefore everybody will move to the city. But I don't think that it's going to work out that way. And I don't think everybody's going to move to the country necessarily either. I think that what will happen is that the suburbs really have very poor prospects. So do our big American metroplex cities, you know. Virtually all of them, and they're quite different. I mean San Francisco, and New York, and Boston are not the same as Dallas, and Houston, and Atlanta.

But nonetheless they've all achieved a size and a scale that is not really going to be consistent with the energy realities of the future, and I think that they're going to contract substantially. And in some of these places the contraction is going to be more disorderly than in other places.

But I think they are going to contact, and that even as that occurs, they will densify at their old centers and along their waterfronts, and the places that have waterfronts are going to be in a more favorable situation. I mean, this is apart from whatever happens with climate change.

But I think that the action is actually going to be in the smaller towns and the smaller cities in America, the very places that have been deactivated and more or less depopulated in our time, in recent history. I think that they're going to become the places that have a much better chance of making it in the future as we confront these new energy realities, and what will in effect be necessarily a new scale of organized human life.

Jay:  So, we're not going to...?

James:  There's something I forgot. I left out something that's very important. You know, the places that are successful are going to be the places that have a meaningful relationship with agriculture, because we're going to have to grow more of our food close to home. We don't know how much, whether it's 10% or 80%, but we're going to have to do more of that. And the places where that's not possible are going to be places that are going to be very troubled.

Jay:  Yeah, well, that's true. And I think you're going to see places like... I guess I would say the cities you really don't want to be in, in my opinion, would be Albuquerque, Phoenix, Las Vegas, and I think maybe Southern California is not going to be a very good place to live in.

James:  Well I would agree with you on all of those, and I think that they're going to be very unfortunate places. You know, what's going to happen for awhile, maybe in Southern California, and in Phoenix and Tucson, is there will be sort of a fight between Anglos and Hispanics over who will occupy the terrain. And eventually we'll make the discovery that it will not support any substantial population of any ethnic group.

Jay:  That's right, and never has actually.

James:  No, it's been an unusual period where you know because we had a lot of cheap energy. Were just able to pump a lot of food and water into these places and you know. When you flow over Arizona you see all these irrigated circular farms with you know the great revolving irrigation machines. And you know it takes a lot of energy to do that and it's expensive. And were not going to be able to continue doing that. So those places are going to be in trouble I'm a little optimistic about places like the upper mid west. I think the great Lakes are a wonderful resource that has obviously fallen in and it's been deactivated fallen in to just use.

You go into these shipping towns in Northern Michigan and Wisconsin, Minnesota you know there's very little there anymore. They look like a kind of a former soviet back order up there. But it's a great inland sea very close to some of the best agricultural land in North America and I thing will become reactivated.

Jay:  And I would think Canada is going to probably do pretty well in the next few years too.

James:  They may actually even benefit from whatever climate change developments occur.

Jay:  well I mean the thing is that growing food is going to become very important. And we just seem to have a secluding reality is going on. Where we have on the one side this obvious to me a decentralization going back to local culture and food and maybe will be connected by the Internet. I don't know if they'll be enough energy for that. But then at the same time we have this really and its not just Obama it was Bush too and it's been going on for like a long time. It's kind of an attempt to keep trying to centralize authority in the Federal Government and getting us involved in all these incredibly insane wars. Which are draining the economy?

James:  Well I got to stop you for a minute because it's not as though power wasn't already concentrated in the Federal Government before George Bush came along.

Jay:  Well that's true.

James:  You know.

Jay:  It just seems to be driving in this [inaudible].

James:  You know in an increasing concentration of power and over the decades and really accelerating in the mid 20th century. And that was the high tide of the American industrial fossil fuel experience you know. By the time we were in the 60'some and 70'some and 80'some that was it that was the peak for us. And it's not surprising that's the point the central government was the most powerful. But it's been increasing less so.

Jay:  Well you definitely are an optimist in that's good. I want to hear more about anything else that you got coming down the line.

James:  Well I did finish a book this past week. I wrote a novel called World Made By Hand was published last year. And it was a novel said in the post oil future in Upstate New York.

The Long Emergerncy

Part Two.

With

James Howard Kuntsler.

Jay Weidner:  My new film Infinity: The Ultimate Trip is getting a lot of great reviews. I think it is the best film that www.sacredmysteries.com has ever released. The film examines life after death, infinity and many other subjects. Also check out our other new film Sophia Returning with John Lash. You have to go to www.sacredmysteries.com to see all of our great films

We're here tonight with James Howard Kunstler. James, what's your website? For people who want to see your stuff.

James:  www.kunstler.com.

Jay:   I really like what you're saying about this idea that it's exactly the opposite of what the conspiracy theories are saying because I really agree with that. I think we're actually heading towards a period of, actually, immense decentralization and I wonder what you thought of that.

James:  Well, yeah, I think that, that is probably going to be the trend and you know, although I tend to call it relocalization. I think we're going to see power and governments really devolve downward to a local level and you know, more and more, the action will be in our towns and I'm not even sure the counties are going to have a whole lot of say about things. One of the other big trends out there is that our government at all levels is becoming increasingly insolvent, unable to collect enough money to run itself, so that's going to be increasingly a problem too.

Jay:  That's happening in every place that I know about and every place that America.

James:  Are you in California?

Jay:  Oregon, we're in Southern Oregon.

James:  Oh, OK.

Jay:  And we're getting a lot of refugees coming up from California right now. There are a lot of both those with some money and those without any money. Freeway five which runs right up through Oregon is getting more hitchhikers than I've seen since the sixties and more people by the roadside. It looks like in two or three years its going to be refugee camps running up the west coast if things go on like they are. And the west coast is getting particularly hit hard because the real estate thing. But, you know, you should get kudos, because really and truly it was a banking crisis but the banking crisis was preceded by the skyrocketing oil prices which really were the last straw for about thirty percent of the households in America. And they can no longer get to work, they moved far away from their jobs where real estate was cheap like in Riverside and San Bernardino, outside of LA and they were driving long commutes and then the four dollar a gallon gas busted them and they couldn't make their house payment.

JamesAlso though, it's hard to say whether those people found themselves out of a job before they ended up having a problem commuting than a job that they no longer had.

Jay:  Well, it's true.

James:  All these things kind of converge and the banking crisis was well out of hand before the price of oil really skyrocketed in 2007, 2008. When I published The Long Emergency I had a chapter in there that was titled "the hallucinated economy".

Jay:  Yeah.

James:  And it was all about the housing fiasco. You can see it coming from a million miles away, I mean, you didn't have to be a PhD in economics to understand what was going on. It was just a lot of really bad lending, fraudulent securitization of debt, and the two words we never hear in connection with the housing/banking crisis, the two words we never hear are "swindle" and "fraud." But those are really the issues that were at the heart of it.

Jay:  Definitely, on all ends. And everybody's to blame, that's what's incredible about it. Interesting.

James:  Well not everybody, but, the bankers certainly are, and so are the people who bought houses under false pretenses, or even under wishful pretenses.

Jay:  Well, they did. And now we have the problem of what I call cascading crises, where we're getting them mounting, these crises. And right now gas prices have leveled off a little bit, but you know Mexico is due to become an importer of oil by 2012. And I was going to ask you, were they ever audited, the fields in Saudi Arabia, as far as we know?

James:  Well we do. What we know is that the figures for oil reserves in Saudi Arabia remain officially state secrets, because Aramco, the Saudi Arabian oil company, is a state agency. And they don't like to give out their information, and it's not to their advantage to give out information. They benefit from the world not knowing what their supplies are. Well interestingly, it was more or less made official today that Russia has surpassed Saudi Arabia as the world's leading oil producer. But you know, then again Russia is also probably past peak, and on the way down itself.

Jay:  Yeah, we don't know much about them, do we?

James:  Well, we don't know that much. We know pretty much what they are getting out of the ground. It's a little unclear what's left in there, but we have, I think, good reason to believe that they've peaked, and that they are on the way down.

Jay:  And they've just recently signed huge contracts with China, right? To pump a lot of oil down to China over the next decades, right? [background music starts]

James:  Russia? I'm not really sure what's going on with them and China. What we do know is, that as a general proposition, the state owned oil companies are changing the way the oil markets function. Because they are indeed making special favored customer contracts with other nations, rather than putting their oil on the auction block, which is what the futures markets are. And you know, we're going to see more and more of that. And what that portends to the United States is that, us not being one of the more favored nations in the world, and being the subject of a lot of grievance, and envy, and other negative feelings on the part of other nations, we're going to have trouble getting oil from these parts of the world now.