Henry's Blog

Jay Weidner:   When you all get a chance, check out www.sacredmysteries.com for great films and videos including the two films that helped start the 2012 movement: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013.

We're talking to Timothy Beckley. Hey, Timothy, remember that movie, you remember another movie with Nancy Reagan, where God spoke to the people of the Earth through the radio? The Next Voice You Hear.

Timothy:  Yeah, I did. Is that an old Twilight Zone? I mean, I think it's...

Jay:  No, there's a movie; I only saw it once. It came out in the '50s which starred Nancy Davis, and it was one of the creepiest films I've ever seen. It was a very Christian film, and it was about how God spoke through the radio and told earth that they'd better straighten up or he was going to destroy us.

Timothy:  I don't remember that one, no.

Jay:  It was strange.

Timothy:  Hey, Jay, let me finish my synchronicity story here, OK?

Jay:  Please.

Timothy:  So, I'm on the Long John Show and I'm talking about these UFO experiences that people have had in New York and so forth. So, the next day I get a phone call at my office. There's a gal who does a column for a New York magazine. It's called Best Bets. It's on the last page, and basically it's a list of what's happening in New York, a list. I don't know how to explain it, a list, like top 10 things to do, anyway. She heard this, and she wanted a list of the top best 10 UFO sightings in New York.

So, I gave her the phone numbers of a few people to call or names that I remember about people that have had experiences. And then, at the end of the conversation, I guess, maybe, we talked for about half an hour or so, I say, "Terry ? her name is Terry Clifford.

I said, "Terry, let me send you some more material, a little bit about my bio" and so forth. I said, "Well, where should I send it?" And she said, "Well, send it to apartment blah?blah?blah, 6R, 11 East 96th Street in Manhattan?"

I said, "What address?" "11 East 96th Street." It's not the right address, but 11 East 96th Street, New York, New York. I said, "Well, are you in the same building I am?" It turned out she lived two floors above me, but that's not quite the end of the story.

Now, Terry and I ? I can't say we became the best of friends, but it's a very small building. We're talking about six apartments or eight apartments in the building. So, we'd see each other in the hallway or in the elevator. We' always had a laugh for years, "Hey, hey, there you are in the same building, synchronicity coincidence, blah, blah, blah."

She was into metaphysical subjects. In fact, she wrote the first book on the Dali Lama. She traveled with the Dali Lama throughout India wherever during one of the summers in the mid or late 1960s, right? In fact, her book was published by Samuel Weiser, Samuel Weiser being probably the first granddaddy of all the New Age publishers.

And so, like I said, we met every once in a while in the elevator, a little rickety elevator ride down. I'd meet her. I'd get on the fourth floor. She'd be on the sixth. We'd go down, and she passed away a few years after I had the... She had a brain tumor. Of course, I've told this story quite a few times.

Last year I'm in a rather ? let's put it. Let's tell it like it is, a rather sleazy bar in Greenwich Village, Manhattan. I'm sitting there having a drink with a lady friend of mine at the end of the bar and just kibitzing and getting a little bit more inebriated as the night goes on. But I'm over 21 so that's legal, and there's a fellow...

Now, like I said, this is Greenwich Village so it's usually a very casual place. People wear jeans. It's a college crowd because it's near NYU, New York University.

Well, there's a fellow standing next to us, a little bit older than the rest of the crowd, and doesn't quite seem to fit in. But there he is and he seems to be having a good time. He offered to buy me and my friend a drink.

So, I said, "It looks like you're doing a little bit of celebrating. What are you celebrating?" And he said, "Oh, I just got a..." and he named a very hefty advance from a major publisher. And I said, "Gee that's great! I'm a publisher myself," but my advances are far lower than the $200, 000 he had gotten.

So I asked him what was the subject, and it was a self?help book. In fact, I remember his name was Phil?I thought of Dr. Phil from TV?it wasn't him, but it was the same kind of self?help material. So I got to talking, and telling him this is what I publish too, and somehow we got to talking about this incident with this gal that lived two floors above me.

Well, he just turned ashen white. He said, "That lady, Terry, was the love of my life. I was with her on that trip that she made with the Dalai Lama, and if you turn to the acknowledgements in her book, you'll find that I'm mentioned there."

So I said, "You know, I think maybe if there is such a thing as communication from the other side, maybe she's saying hello to you, because I don't think it's a message for me, but there certainly is some relevance in my bringing up this topic."

And I said "What are you doing? Are you going to write anything more about this?" And he said "No, but I'm on my way to England to deliver a talk." It's something like a meeting or a conference for psychiatrists or psychologists.

And I said, "Do me a favor. They could be a skeptical [?] life. Would you tell that story that I just told you to at least three of them, and see if it has any impact on their careers or on their life."

So I just went away thinking it must have been a message for him. It was like I was transmitting this to tell him that she was still thinking of him, and thanks for mentioning her in his book.

Jay:  Yeah, I'll tell you ? My new movie "Infinity" is about life after death, and we interviewed quite a few people, and I'll tell you that... I don't know, there's certainly something there, there's no doubt. There are too many similar stories, if you know what I mean.

Timothy:  Yes.

Jay:  Synchronicities are strange. We live in a world where conspiracies are frequently called coincidences, and I think it was William Irwin Thompson who once said that he thought conspiracy theorists were beginning Buddhists, because they could see the underlying connection between everything. And I really wonder if possibly there is some connection between all of this and some kind of matrix of reality that binds everything together, but we can't really see the connections, they're like invisible.

Timothy:  I feel the same way. There's a continuity to a life, I think, but in what sense? Charles Fort, who of course was one of the big collectors of oddities strange obkects, disappearances, the Bermuda Triangle and so forth and so on... He always felt that we were like a giant chess game, and there were people that were manipulating the chess pieces for good or for bad, and I guess that's what I figured too, but I don't know.

This is like John Keels' thinking on the subject as well. Do they have the same thinking patterns as we do?

We think of aliens as coming here from other planets, and we assume that they must think exactly. Why don't they make open contact? Why don't they land on the White House lawn? Well, maybe, they're not even thinking of that.

Jay:  No, I don't think they are.

Timothy:  You know, I mean, there's an entirely different life pattern or thought processes that goes throughout the universe, and just because the human race thinks in one mode doesn't everybody... It's like radio bands, right? I mean, the CB bands. You've got all these different bands, and people are operating on different levels. I think that's the way it is in the universe.

These other beings, often dimensionals, time travelers or whatever they might be, are not necessarily thinking the same things that we are or have the same ideas in mind. They're going about their own agenda, and I'm not sure if I landed here from some other planet I would want anybody to know that I was here either.

Jay:  I wouldn't either, actually.

Timothy:  No, I don't think that I want people to know that I'm here as it is [laughs] .

Jay:  Yeah, exactly. Any thinking person has to be paranoid at this stage. I agree with your point of view and Keels' point of view. I think that's actually the best explanation for what's happening here. There is a game, and we don't even know that we're in the game, at least, most of us don't. What we do is a synchronicity...

Timothy:  Maybe, you and I know that we're in the game, but we don't know what the rules are.

Jay:  Well, that's true. It's like playing chess with Bobby Fischer and you're blindfolded.

Timothy:  Yeah.

Jay:  I don't know. It's so impossible to get people who have not seen this to see it.

Timothy:  That's right.

Jay:  It's impossible. It is unbelievable.

Timothy:  Well, you know something though, it's not, actually, everybody has to come along that path on their own, and I'd be the last person to try to shove any of this down anybody's throat. In fact, I've been involved in making movies. I've been in and out of promoting musical bands. I've done a lot of different things.

And people always say, "Oh, you don't want to tell anybody that you're into UFOs or anything. They'll think you're weird." I don't know, some people think I'm weird and other people, they like to hear what the latest scoop is even if they don't necessarily believe it.

Well, you don't force it down people's throat. If they're interested, they're interested. If they're not, let's go have a beer and watch the baseball game.

Jay:  I agree with you. When I first got into this business, if that's what you call it, I had a show on Public Radio, a very liberal crowd listening, and they would invite me over to their parties sometimes. This was in Seattle, and I'd get disinvited from their parties because I'd start talking about this kind of stuff and scare the living daylights out of everyone.

Timothy:  Now, you'd be on the A list.

Jay:  Well, I am. That's what I was just going to say. Now, I'm getting invited to parties, and they're disappointed if I don't tell them.

Timothy:  There you go, right? Sometimes, you just don't even want to, like I've said this 15 times before.

Jay:  Exactly. Well, we have been talking to Timothy Beckley. I really appreciate it. You can find his site at ConspiracyJournal.com and thanks, Tim. It was really enjoyable.

Timothy:  You're welcome, and if there are any horror film fans out there, go to MrCreepo.com, [spells] [laughs] .

Jay:  There you go.

Timothy:  Have fun. Get educated and learn because that's what life is all about.

 

 

Jay Weidner:   I'm Jay Weidner reminding you of our great website www.sacredmysteries.com where you can always find the best in spiritual videos and films. Our new film Sophia Returning: The Path to Planetary Tantra with Gnostic scholar John Lash is out.

We're talking to Timothy Beckley, writer of some 30 books. You can go to his website conspiracyjournal.com?very interesting site. Timothy, I wrote a book about this mysterious cross in the South of France, and I spent from 1986 to 1999 working on this project, and finally published in 1999 the first of two books.

One of the things that happened to me during this research was a really strange amount of synchronicities, sometimes of an unbelievable nature, like a book that I really needed appearing just sitting on an airport seat while I was at the airport. A book that actually changed the research completely.

So I'm wondering, have you had any of this kind of thing happen to you?

Timothy:  I have had so many. First of all, I want to say your book "The Mysteries of the Great Cross of Hendaye" is just a fabulous read.

Jay:  Well, thank you.

Timothy:  I'm selling copies I bought from your publisher. I think I still have a few left here, and of course your DVD on the same subject is just absolutely marvelous. It affected me. I've always been interested in alchemy, but too stupid to study it! [laughs] It's an absolutely fascinating read, and it's marvelous how you managed to fit all those pieces together. Someone needs to do a Hollywood movie on that.

Jay:  They should!

Timothy:  An actual fabulous book. Yes, synchronicities have had...I've had a lot of them, and I don't know why. People say, "Well, it shows that you're in tune with the universe." Well, some days I feel like I'm in tune with the universe... on other days, I don't feel like I have anything in common with it at all. I could tell you a couple little instances right here that really are just beyond... even synchronicity or coincidences have to have their limits.

Maybe 20 years or so ago... 25, maybe even 30. Whatever it was, I was invited to speak to a conference of people in San Francisco. It was the National UFO Congress, I think it was. They had a nice group, I think 300?400 people showed up.

I gave my talk, and the promoter?his name was Dale Rettig, I remember?he had been another teenage researcher. We all started out with a UFO groups that were organized by teenagers back in the 60's. Now we're a bunch of old men, but in those days we were in our late teens or early twenties, and I was no exception.

Anyway, I had given this talk and it was on a Saturday night, and I was leaving the next day on Sunday, but we had some time to kill because the flight back east was maybe 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon.

So we decided, let's go out for brunch. Now, I had never been to San Francisco before that, I hadn't seen the cable cars, and the whole thing, and I guess it was something we wanted to do; we had some time to kill.

So we decided to go have a brunch, and we picked the place at random. I certainly had not been there before, and neither had the promoter, his wife, or the three or four people that were with us.

So we went into this nice restaurant/bar, and had the usual brunch, and a Bloody Mary to start out with, and so on, and to keep the conversation going, I'm telling the promoters, "I wish I had a little more foresight and I had thought to call some of the people that I know who had moved out here from New York," because I just hadn't communicated with them in a while.

Now, I had one of the first metaphysical cult groups in New York. We had the New York School of Cult Arts and Sciences down on 14th Street, and we had meetings and psychic readers, and sold metaphysical books, and in those days ? this would have been the late 1960's ?

I don't think there was anybody else really doing that. It was just starting?the whole New Age thing was just starting...

Anyway, one of the fellows who had lectured for me and had given a couple of classes was a psychic by the name of Alan Vaughan. Now, Alan Vaughan was a very colorful person. Not only was he a psychic, but he had a great sense of humor, and we always liked each other.

We got along well and I thought he always did a very good job of getting his message and his information across to people. He was one of the boys, so to speak, very down to earth. He never let this go to his head or anything like that.

Anyway, he had moved from New York to San Francisco to become editor of a magazine called Psychic. It was a very glossy magazine and very prestigious magazine devoted to parapsychology and the paranormal that was published from the mid?sixties; I think maybe to the early nineteen seventies.

For a magazine, it had a long run, because magazines, as a rule, don't last very long, except for faith [?] , which there's nothing else like that. Most magazines on the paranormal and when the publisher realized they're not going to make any money and when they lose interest, then decide they're going to go on to something else.

Anyway, so Alan Vaughn was one of these fellows that I should have called, but of course I didn't. Anyway, he was sitting there drinking a Bloody Mary and having lunch... brunch and in walks this fellow with a dog on a leash and I look at him at I'm like, "Gee, that looks a lot like Alan Vaughn."

Now here's a city, how many people live in San Francisco? A couple million?

Jay:  One point eight million.

Timothy:  Close, OK, close enough. Right?

Jay:  Yeah.

Timothy:  Anyway, I said to myself: Well, this can't be Alan Vaughn. Why would he come in five minutes after I just talked about him?" That's impossible, right? OK, so I called the fellow over, he looks at me and I look at him, I said, "Aren't you Alan Vaughn?" and he says, "Yes, I'm Alan Vaughn." I said, "Well, what are you doing here?" I tell him I'd given a lecture down in blah, blah, blah. He said, "Well I don't know, I was just out walking my dog and I just thought I wanted to come in and have a beer."

OK, so he sat down of course, I introduced him to my friends. And I said, "Well this is quite a coincidence, isn't it Alan?" And he said, "Yeah, but you know I've been working on a book on synchronicity."

And he said, "I guess I'm going to use this in the book, I think it's case number 17, in his little paper back book, which is out of print, but you can find it once and a while on synchronicity and coincidence. Now what are the chances, one point eight million, I think you can even double that, I mean, it's...

Jay:  Oh, God.

Timothy:  It's totally unlikely. Right, I mean it's...

Jay:  Completely.

Timothy:  It doesn't happen. All right here's another one. This one is a little bit funnier. I was on the "Long John Show" one night. And I was talking about UFOs and ghost stories in the New York area. Right, for some reason that came up: why do people always see UFOs that live in the country or are farmers on tractors at six am? I said, "Well that's not true, there are UFO sightings everywhere. It's a phenomenon that encompasses the whole globe from small cities to the biggest towns and New York is no exception."

In fact you probably know that [inaudible 27:05] wrote a book about this lady Linda, who actually was levitated out of her window over the Brooklyn Bridge and went inside their ship and were witnesses and all to this. Anyways...

Jay:  Oh, was that story, hang on. We have to take a break. But was that story actually true? That was true?

Timothy:  Well, I didn't go up with her. [laughs]

Jay:  But do you think that story was true?

Timothy:  I don't know, I mean I know the lady. She's a very nice woman. In fact, we had her out to one of our conferences in Phoenix that we were organizing. And had her sit up for a workshop that only a couple of people signed up. And she still did the workshop. We went into the bar, had a beer with the people and she gave her talk. She's a very believable lady. I don't know if...

 

Jay Weidner: I am here to remind everyone of our website www.sacredmysteries.com where you can find the best in spiritual videos and films. Our newest set of Qi Gong instructional videos are out titles The Alchemy of Qi Gong with master teacher Pedram Shojai. Check out www.jayweidner.com for more high weirdness.

Speaking of high weirdness, we're here with Timothy Beckley ? what my wife would probably call a madman, as she calls me, doesn't know what I'm doing and is wondering why I hang out with so many weird people. And I was going to ask you, Tim. I see on your bio here that you're a horror film fan. Is that true?

Timothy:  Actually I have to blame that on Nancy Reagan, believe it or not.

Jay:  [laughs]

Timothy:  Which I know might sound pretty strange. But I don't know if most people realize, but Nancy Reagan before she became Mrs. Reagan, was Nancy Davis.

Jay:  That's right.

Timothy:  An actress in Hollywood who did ? I don't know what her background is, to be honest with her. But the movie that influenced me is a film that she did called, "Donovan's Brain."

Jay:  "Donovan's Brain."

Timothy:  And it was shot in black?and?white. And I'm not sure what year, but I think in the early 1950s. Anyway, I know as a kid, it was being broadcast on television. And I guess it was on at a reasonably late hour. I wanted to see it, but my mother wouldn't let me stay up that late because I had school the next day. Not that that normally mattered, but I couldn't sneak under the covers and listen to it like I did "Long John."

But my mother wanted to watch it, of course. I could hear the movie in the next room. And I remember hearing the sound of Donovan's brain being kept alive in a jar, I guess, or something like that, right?

It was one of these brains?go?out?of?body, or something. And I could hear the sound of the machinery pumping: "ba?boom, ba?boom, ba?boom, ba?boom." Anyway, it frightened the bejesus out of me for some reason that I really can't explain.

But I guess in a sense it was a good horror movie. Because today you have all these special effects, so that ruins it for me. The whole thing about a horror movie is the shadows and the sounds and so forth.

Anyway, after that night I couldn't go to sleep without sleeping with a nightlight on. But I saw that movie. It was on TV maybe about 10 or 15 years ago and I said, "This movie frightened me so much when I was young. Now I have to see the real film."

Well, I turned that movie on and I shut it off in 15 minutes. It was so boring. Horror movies have come a long way since that was made. And the acting wasn't all that great and the theatrics weren't all that great either, except for the brain being kept alive in a jar: "ba?bumm, ba?bumm, ba?bumm." [laughter]

I always enjoyed horror movies. And I guess that had a great impact on me, because later on in life I started working for a couple of small movie companies around Times Square. I had an office in Manhattan. I worked for Jim Moseley. He had a magazine, "Saucer News."

I would come into the city ? this was back when I was in my late teens ? and I went around Times Square, and in those days you could see two movies for a buck including a newsreel and a cartoon, although I don't think on Times Square they were too interested in the cartoon.

Anyway, a lot of them were horror movies and so forth and so on, and I met a lot of the small movie producers who had offices around Times Square.

I met a few of them, and I got into the movie business when I wasn't working in publishing. Because I edited over the years probably about 30 different magazines, none of which lasted more than a couple of issues. But I met some of these small?time producers and I became the publicist for their film companies. And then I...

Jay:  Did you know Jack Harris? He did "The Blob," and ...

Timothy:  Well, I didn't meet him. But I knew quite a few of these fellows. There was a fellow, Sherman, who had a company who actually became very much interested and involved in UFOs over the years. He has a movie out about the UFO contacts at Edwards Air Force Base. Anyway, I met some of these guys who went to work for these little film companies promoting their little horror movies, and later on I decided I wanted to become a horror movie person myself, so I put out a series of movies under the name of "Mr. Creepo Presents," and they were some pretty wild low?budget things.

They're being repackaged and some of them will be put out early next year by Reality Entertainment...

Jay:  Oh, they're good.

Timothy:  And they're available now on Amazon.com. If you just look up Mr. Creepo, you'll find the videos, and some of them are on vampires, and I've written books on were wolves and everything. My publishing company, Inner Light Global Communications, we started out mainly as UFOs and New Age, but you've got to move on, if you're going to be a successful publisher, and to stay in business you've got to go with what people are interested in.

So we've done books on psychic pets, and we've published books by Brad Steiger, and Commander X we pointed out, and Tim Swartz, and so forth, so we're very eclectic, and we keep going and we do a lot of different things, because not everybody's interested in the same thing. So we give them a little bit of everything out there.

In fact, we put out a bi?monthly newsletter which is available online, conspiracyjournal.com, or it's available through the mail, if people don't have the Internet, or they want a hard copy to look at, and we always come out with probably six new books a month that are our own, some video tapes and products from other producers and publishers and so forth.

So we present this with an open mind and attitude and let people decide what path they want to take and study. We present it, and then you decide.

Jay:  That's what I do, too.

Timothy:  Yes, you do! And a very good job you do.

Jay:  Well, thank you. I used to actually write horror films, believe it or not.

Timothy:  Is that right? Did you do "Donovan's Brain"?

Jay:  I did not. I was about two years old when that movie came out.

Timothy:  Nobody will take credit! [laughs]

Jay:  I won't take credit for the ones I wrote either. [They laugh] They were pathetic. I'm a big horror film fan myself, Tim. And I agree with what you said about modern horror?it's too techy.

 

Jay Weidner:   I'm Jay Weidner, and you're listening to one of the more intelligent shows on the air. I want to remind you all my new movie "Infinity" is out. If you want to get more information on that you can go to our website at http://www.Jayweidner.com or http://www.sacredmysteries.com.

And let's see here we a good guest tonight, someone we've been wanting to talk to for a long time. So I'm going to cut short all my talk and go straight to him; we have Timothy Green Beckley. UFO and paranormal pioneer. . I think I've read about 15 of his books.

Timothy Green Beckley:  Oh my goodness.

Jay:  Made a major influence on my life, and I didn't even realize they were his books, a lot of them. So I guess I have you to blame for me I guess Timothy.

Timothy:  Well my goodness, I guess that's a good sign. I hope so anyway.

Jay:  Yeah, yeah, you've been around the block. There is no doubt about it.

Timothy:  Well I've been around the universe.

Jay:  Yeah, really and truly this guy, folks, he actually was on Long John Neville's show right.

Timothy:  Yeah, I was.

Jay:  God what am I hearing.

Timothy:  John was the all night pioneer of paranormal radio.

Jay:  The Art Bell of his day.

Timothy:  He was, yes. I'm sure John... well they don't even deny it, George Noory has mentioned Long John on the air. Everybody who's who in the UFO, and physic, metaphysical field would have to give some sort of tribute to Long John. Although he was not... you have to separate from the hosts of today because John was not necessarily a believer. He was more of a storyteller and a trendsetter. He liked to get up there and stay all night and listen to these individuals who claimed they had been to other planets.

He had on the contactees. These are the people who actually stated the UFO and new age movement, if you want to call it that. They would get on his show and they would talk about their trips to other places and the solar system and beyond.

People like George Adamsky and George Van Tassel. There was a fellow from Arkansas who always wore overalls, that was Buck Nelson, who claimed that him and his dog Poe had been to the Mars moon and Venus.

They were others like Dan martin, and Truman Detrum who met Aura reins the lady from the planet Clairum that existed from beyond the Sun. The list just went on and on.

One of my favorites a gentleman who I know fairly well, he just passed away a couple of months ago in his 80's, Howard Menger. Howard Menger was the best known of the east coast contactees. Most of these contacts were taking place in and around California. While Howard lived in the town of High Bridge, New Jersey.

Howard was a sign painter. Fairly well established in the neighborhood there; a very rural area. Howard had grown up in Brooklyn New York, but I guess the parents decided they wanted to leave the big city and live a more quiet life out in the rural area. So they moved out to High Bridge when Howard was ten years old.

Now he and his brother use to play out in the pasture behind the farmhouse there. On a number of occasions they would be out playing in the back and these silvery disk shaped object would come over and when Howard was ten years old he claims that one of these crafts actually landed in the field near by and he established contact with the beings on board this craft.

Now they visited him over a period of, oh I guess many, many years, it would be 30 years or more. There were people who would come to Howard's house because they heard that these ships were landing there.

And I have even talked to a number of them on the telephone who claimed that while they were at Howard's house they decided to go out back after it got dark, and they were some apple orchards back there if I remember correctly.

And they would see these lights tinkling off in the distance, right just above the ground. And on a number of occasions Howard would tell them to stay back and he would approach these lights.

And they'd see people getting out of the lights or conversing with Howard and they could actually hear the voices of these people off in the distance and measured... actually took some photographs of whoever it was he was speaking with.

And some people felt these contacts were actually going on. And he told some pretty wild and amazing stories. I mean he claimed that he had actually been on board these craft.

He actually taken a trip to the moon where there was an established UFO base, but these stories... I was just attracted to them. I didn't necessarily say I would believe them 100%, but I was in awe. This was the time when the whole world was thinking about traveling in space. It was a novelty, it was something new.

We had our own astronauts. It was something people hadn't heard before. UFO's of course had always been around, but it was a novelty to most people. It certainly intrigued me.

At a very young age I would sit there under the covers with my first transistor radio and listen to Long John when I should be going to sleep, and getting up early in the morning to go to school, but I would rather listen to Howard Menger, and tails of the UFO contactees, trips to other planets.

I guess that had a whopping big impact on my life for better or worse.

Jay:  Yeah, well I mean I think he had a big impact on a lot of people who listened to him. I've seen one UFO. I was near Vandenberg Air Force base and this was about seven years ago. I was looking up, it was up in the mountains, and beautiful starlit night and I noticed a star went and blinked out on me and then came back on and so I looked really close and I saw. I can't say a saw an object; I saw a round black thing that was blocking out the stars as it passed overhead. And it left a... it had a wake it looked like almost, like a heat wave wake. But I have since thought that it was maybe it was some electro magnetic radiation I was seeing, I'm not sure.

But anyway, I have actually seen a UFO. What do you think they are honestly after all these years of looking?

Timothy:  I think I'm more puzzled now then I think I ever was. You know when we see say a UFO. Basically a UFO is an unidentified object. It can be way up in the sky, on the rim of the Earth's atmosphere, it could be something that cases an airplane pilot, and it could be something that's at tree level, or could be something that's on the ground. It could be something outside the house, it could be something sometimes that even invades your property.

UFO's are I think a lot of different things. You know I think for a long time we had a tendency to believe that UFOs were these metallic spaceships from other planets.

And of course, there have been any number of reports where airplane pilots have been buzzed by these things. There have been many incidences where there have been power failures and electrical interruptions because a UFO has gotten too close, just like in the movie, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."

But I think UFOs are a lot of different things. Some of them could well be from outer space. Some could be from other dimensions, what we call altered terrestrials. Some, possibly, time?travelers. Some are tied in with the religious phenomena and mythology.

So UFOs ? I don't know, each one has to be determined on its own merits. And how in the heck do you do that?

Jay:  I don't know. I've been reading the same stuff that you have and looking for years. And oh, I've read Commander X and John Keel, and John Keel's one of my very...

Timothy:  Well, John of course has now passed away...

Jay:  Yes, he has.

Timothy:  ... in June of this year, and he was a good friend of mine. We were more then just UFO people working it together. We had the same interest in movies and so we socialized quite a bit. And of course, he wrote quite a bit about what he felt were beings that were coming over from some other reality or from some other dimension. He did not see UFOs as being solid, physical craft from somewhere else. He's probably best known for the book "The Mothman Prophecies," which later was made into a movie starring Richard Gere. And people were [inaudible 09:46] .

Jay:  What did John think of that movie?

Timothy:  What did he think of it? Well, John had been involved. Of course, he's been a producer for a lot of TV shows. He'd worked in the film industry and things like that. So he realized that it wasn't exactly 100 percent based on the book. But you know, Hollywood is Hollywood. And sometimes you've got to look the other way in order for an idea or a storyline to get developed. And there a lot of things you might be able to write about in a book that aren't going to project very well in the theater. And people go to the movies, they want to be entertained. That's the bottom line, or for the most part.

So he did not have any great criticisms against it. I think he realized it was what it was, and he was happy that it got to be made. To me, it's kind of like the same thing with the contactees. They might have had some experiences, and at some times they might have just been over sensationalistic.

But they got their point across. And sometimes people come to a belief or they come to an idea through different paths.

Some people might be turned on to UFOs because of a documentary they see on TV. Other people might be turned onto it because they saw "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." People have different paths in life, and I think John realized that.

And it might not have been 100 percent the way that he would've wanted to make the film, but I think he was happy with it. He got a kick out of the action and finally ...

Jay:  I actually liked it. I thought it was a pretty good film.

Timothy:  Yeah, I did too.